The other threads I found were a few years dated so I’m looking for some up to date opinions/recommendations. The new engine is about to go back on and I’m trying to decide if the Electro Air is worth the extra $2k.

My mechanic is if the opinion that Electro Air is the better product from the quality of build stand point. He has and operates both. He has been doing a lot of Electro Air installs lately. Electro is about $2k more than Surefly.

It looks like there was some concern about CHTs running hotter with either unit. Anyone see that?

Also I’d like to hear your experience with decreased fuel burn, any more power, and if the engine runs smoother.

Thanks!

Are these still single mag installs with one tradition mag still required?

I'm flying with a Surefly on a 185 with a 520.

I have flow matched injectors and I can run 1.5-1.8 GPH lean of peak and it runs smooth until the power just falls off, doesn't get rough.

If I set the engine to book power from the Cessna charts, it will make book speed plus 3-4 kts, which I think the airplane did pretty close to that with the standard mag, so can't say it did much there. If I start leaning, the speed doesn't really change until I get well lean of peak. At 1.5 GPH lean of peak, it runs around 2-3 kts slower than book speed. This is where it shines. Prior to the Surefly, it would slow down 5-8 kts,

I typically run wide open throttle, 22-2300 RPM, and peak EGT. I speed little or no speed difference from book power which is 1-1.5 GPH rich of peak. Prior to the surely, I'd run the same but lose 2-4 kts.

All of this comes at the cost of running hotter. The CHTs when up 10-20 degrees. I found a lot of little tricks to address that, so that has been manageable.

I went with the surefly because of cost AND simplicity. All of the magic is in one box. Talk to @halestorm about the electro-air, he may have some thoughts on that.

AEROPOD wrote:I'm flying with a Surefly on a 185 with a 520.

I have flow matched injectors and I can run 1.5-1.8 GPH lean of peak and it runs smooth until the power just falls off, doesn't get rough.

If I set the engine to book power from the Cessna charts, it will make book speed plus 3-4 kts, which I think the airplane did pretty close to that with the standard mag, so can't say it did much there. If I start leaning, the speed doesn't really change until I get well lean of peak. At 1.5 GPH lean of peak, it runs around 2-3 kts slower than book speed. This is where it shines. Prior to the Surefly, it would slow down 5-8 kts,

I typically run wide open throttle, 22-2300 RPM, and peak EGT. I speed little or no speed difference from book power which is 1-1.5 GPH rich of peak. Prior to the surely, I'd run the same but lose 2-4 kts.

All of this comes at the cost of running hotter. The CHTs when up 10-20 degrees. I found a lot of little tricks to address that, so that has been manageable.

I went with the surefly because of cost AND simplicity. All of the magic is in one box. Talk to @halestorm about the electro-air, he may have some thoughts on that.

I already struggle to keep temps under control with the cargo pod on (I have all the mods such as gills, cowl flap extensions and exhaust fairing). What other tricks do you have? Another 20 deg would put me over 400 most of the time?

JamieG wrote:
I already struggle to keep temps under control with the cargo pod on (I have all the mods such as gills, cowl flap extensions and exhaust fairing). What other tricks do you have? Another 20 deg would put me over 400 most of the time?

That's probably another whole thread. I've been thinking about posting some of those ideas on my instagram/facebook.

Most baffles on most airplanes are in rough shape. The first thing I'd do is shine a light from below and stand over the engine looking for leaks. The move the light above and look from below. Fix all of those leaks first. The 470/520/550 inter cylinder baffles rarely fit well and need a fair amount of work to seal well. The other big leak is around the oil cooler, lots of room for improvement there. I use flue tape that's rated for high temp. No, it doesn't have PMA/FAA/STC or any other official approval, but it seals up holes well.

AEROPOD wrote: I've been thinking about posting some of those ideas on my instagram/facebook..

I hope instagram/facebook gives you a ride to the pilot lounge on the tailgate of their truck.

corefile wrote:Are these still single mag installs with one tradition mag still required?

Yes. One traditional mag is still required if you’re in a certified aircraft.

AEROPOD wrote:I'm flying with a Surefly on a 185 with a 520.

I have flow matched injectors and I can run 1.5-1.8 GPH lean of peak and it runs smooth until the power just falls off, doesn't get rough.

If I set the engine to book power from the Cessna charts, it will make book speed plus 3-4 kts, which I think the airplane did pretty close to that with the standard mag, so can't say it did much there. If I start leaning, the speed doesn't really change until I get well lean of peak. At 1.5 GPH lean of peak, it runs around 2-3 kts slower than book speed. This is where it shines. Prior to the Surefly, it would slow down 5-8 kts,

I typically run wide open throttle, 22-2300 RPM, and peak EGT. I speed little or no speed difference from book power which is 1-1.5 GPH rich of peak. Prior to the surely, I'd run the same but lose 2-4 kts.

All of this comes at the cost of running hotter. The CHTs when up 10-20 degrees. I found a lot of little tricks to address that, so that has been manageable.

I went with the surefly because of cost AND simplicity. All of the magic is in one box. Talk to @halestorm about the electro-air, he may have some thoughts on that.

Very interesting. Thanks for the feedback. Not loosing the speed…or as much speed…LOP would be welcomed.

When you say the temps went up, are you referring to when you’re running LOP in cruise or across the board in all phases of flight, regardless whether ROP or LOP?

We put new baffling on from Airforms and will seal any leaks. I’m hoping that will help keep any issues away.

I am also curious about the increased cyl head temp. If you are running at the same 22 degrees before TDC, I don't see how it would make a difference.

Zzz wrote:

AEROPOD wrote: I've been thinking about posting some of those ideas on my instagram/facebook..

I hope instagram/facebook gives you a ride to the pilot lounge on the tailgate of their truck.

Point taken, I'll see about putting together some useful tech on the subject.

180Marty wrote:I am also curious about the increased cyl head temp. If you are running at the same 22 degrees before TDC, I don't see how it would make a difference.

If you leave the Surefly timing in the fixed position, then it will make no difference.

It only affects CHTs if you utilize the variable timing. I've run it both ways, it is not super easy to change.

Grassstrippilot wrote:

AEROPOD wrote:I'm flying with a Surefly on a 185 with a 520.

I have flow matched injectors and I can run 1.5-1.8 GPH lean of peak and it runs smooth until the power just falls off, doesn't get rough.

If I set the engine to book power from the Cessna charts, it will make book speed plus 3-4 kts, which I think the airplane did pretty close to that with the standard mag, so can't say it did much there. If I start leaning, the speed doesn't really change until I get well lean of peak. At 1.5 GPH lean of peak, it runs around 2-3 kts slower than book speed. This is where it shines. Prior to the Surefly, it would slow down 5-8 kts,

I typically run wide open throttle, 22-2300 RPM, and peak EGT. I speed little or no speed difference from book power which is 1-1.5 GPH rich of peak. Prior to the surely, I'd run the same but lose 2-4 kts.

All of this comes at the cost of running hotter. The CHTs when up 10-20 degrees. I found a lot of little tricks to address that, so that has been manageable.

I went with the surefly because of cost AND simplicity. All of the magic is in one box. Talk to @halestorm about the electro-air, he may have some thoughts on that.

Very interesting. Thanks for the feedback. Not loosing the speed…or as much speed…LOP would be welcomed.

When you say the temps went up, are you referring to when you’re running LOP in cruise or across the board in all phases of flight, regardless whether ROP or LOP?

We put new baffling on from Airforms and will seal any leaks. I’m hoping that will help keep any issues away.

Temps went up across the board. It's not near as noticeable at takeoff or climb power. I assume the surefly doesn't advance much at those power settings though, and I don't normally run too long at those power settings.

Even new airfares can benefit from fitting properly. Don't count on them to be perfect.

My experience from electronic ignition was with PMags on a Lycoming. But there was a increase in CHT's from the install on a motor that already ran too hot. And that was with the Baffles sealed up real well. I don't have problems with my 550 heat wise, I actually just installed my cowl louvers so summertime temps should be even more manageable than they were before, but I didn't want to even experiment with it. There's enough tinkering already going on when your rebuild project becomes your flying project. So I opted to go with Slicks. In 900 hours however, if they Surefly's get certified for both holes, I might be looking at upgrading. If a guy doesn't mind tinkering, I say go for it.

I learn something new (almost) every day here on bcp....

We decided to stay with mags on my 170B upgrade.
Nevertheless this thread made me curious about Surefly etc.

Can anybody share experience with electronic ignition on a Lyc O360, w/ or w/o variable timing ?

Thanks

Well, I decided to pull the trigger on the Surefly. So I’ll see what happens and report back here. Thanks for all the input, it’s appreciated.

I have Pmags on my RV-7; it has an O-360 - Love them! My config might be a little different. I have the Pmags, the engine was ported and polished; tuned exhaust; and a Sensenich carbon fiber prop. Also, I have the EI monitor and can change the advance - I haven't had the guts to mess with it because it runs so good as is. I typically cruise at 2300 RPM, lean to 350 CHT, 1250 EGT and that gets around 150 KTS. It's the smoothest combo I have ever run.

My Husky has old-school mags with an MT prop - The prop was dynamically balanced. I have no intensions of changing anything on it at this point - It is super smooth running combo, as is.

Curious to know if there have been any further developments on this topic? I like the idea of electronic ignition, but I cannot afford CHT increases.

CParker wrote:Curious to know if there have been any further developments on this topic? I like the idea of electronic ignition, but I cannot afford CHT increases.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, Surefly SIMs have two modes of operation. In the fixed-timing mode, they function exactly as a traditional mag, and therefore, you will not see any changes to your CHTs.

A subsequent development with Surefly is the change to the STC which allow the replacement of BOTH traditional mags with SIMs provided that they are powered by independent electrical systems.

I have one SIM installed in the 185. It is configured with fixed timing. While I don’t benefit from all of the advantages of electronic ignition and advanced timing because of this, I like the redundancy as well as the improved hot starting with lots of spark energy. And I don’t need to worry about CHT increases for now. I can always change it in the future.

Squash wrote:

CParker wrote:Curious to know if there have been any further developments on this topic? I like the idea of electronic ignition, but I cannot afford CHT increases.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, Surefly SIMs have two modes of operation. In the fixed-timing mode, they function exactly as a traditional mag, and therefore, you will not see any changes to your CHTs.

A subsequent development with Surefly is the change to the STC which allow the replacement of BOTH traditional mags with SIMs provided that they are powered by independent electrical systems.

I have one SIM installed in the 185. It is configured with fixed timing. While I don’t benefit from all of the advantages of electronic ignition and advanced timing because of this, I like the redundancy as well as the improved hot starting with lots of spark energy. And I don’t need to worry about CHT increases for now. I can always change it in the future.

Just curious what battery you are running? Has Surefky changes the requirement fir 25AH battery? I'd like to go to one, but running an odyssey battery and really not wanting to give it up for a heavier one...

I am running a small firewall-mounted SBSJ16 battery. There is no current requirement for a 25 Ah battery. The only battery specifications are that it be certified and capable of output between 8.5 and 30 volts.

Squash wrote:I am running a small firewall-mounted SBSJ16 battery. There is no current requirement for a 25 Ah battery. The only battery specifications are that it be certified and capable of output between 8.5 and 30 volts.

Awesome news. Thanks!