I saw part of an interview on TV the other day of a fella named Peter Deleo, who wrote a book entitled "Survive". It was about his experience about 10 years ago of crashing his Maule due to severe turbulence in the Golden Trout wilderness of the eastern Sierra's, southwest of Lone Pine. With about 16 broken bones, he was in the best shape of the three people on board so he decided to hike out to get help. Took him about 10 days to get down to highway 395 & civilization. Unfortunately, the other guys died in pretty short order, like the next day.
It wasn't a very good interview, but the book might be interesting. If nothing else, this is a good reminder that "shit happens". And aviation can be very unforgiving when it does.
Another recent topic prompts this question-- would a BRS-type parachute have helped? Maybe, but then again, maybe not. He stressed in the interview that he tried to fly the airplane all the way into the crash-- hit as slow as possible & try to scrub off speed by aiming between the trees. In severe turbulence, a chute mighta got all snarled up & just let him plummet straight down like a rock. No thanks.

Eric

interesting stories. i recall as recently as a year ago, taking off in a 172 with winds < 5 kts at RNO, climbing to about 500 AGL and getting my ass kicked by a pretty strong west wind that had just had its way with the Sierras. Had a friend with me, so we flew out to Stead and around the air race course just for look(above TPA of course.) The whole time, and the way back into RNO, it was bumpy as hell, with a few hard droppers that feel like the aircraft was dropped onto the tarmac from 15 ft up and your neck whips, one of those approaches where you just have to stop fighting so hard, approach at normal+5 kts, and accept a rough ride in. Luckily, once in ground effect, it smoothed out. I should have known from the winds aloft that a fast wind over the mountains into the valley spells ass kicking, but it was early in my mountain flying experience. since then, like zero.one.victor, i've learned that no matter how pumped you are to fly, sometimes you gotta scrap it, especially when you're paying money, might as well spend it on a smooth day. Nothing worse than taking off and then realizing you wish you hadn't.

Z

More on topic:

The 172 I rent and fly comes equipped(thanks to the owner) with a nice survival kit in a backpack.

Anyone here know anything about the PA-12 on floats that went down up in Canada summer 2003? Was on approach to Nimpo Lake, BC and was last seen in a dive into the shoreline trees. Fatal, but the pilot was a friend and I am curious. Can't find much else beyond the vague NTSB report and there is nothing on the Canadian Transport Board site.

Z

My airplane is 57 years young this year. when people act surprised that i would fly in such an old wreck, I tell them that the pilot is 9 years younger but in nowhere near as good a shape. that shuts them up!
Zane's story reminds me of the ancient Chinese proverb "it's better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here!"

Eric

Wow! very comprehensive & well thought out survival kit. But I can see why he flies a 180--I don't know if I could pack all that stuff plus my regular camping gear in the old 170!
That stuff is all great for a crash/precautionary landing/airplane won't start situation in remote locations, but all bets are off if you crash or ditch in the water, at least in a non-seaplane. I fly out over the open salt water to the San Juan Islands & around Puget Sound regularly. I finally got a PFD (CO-inflatable life vest ) to carry in the airplane. But I was in a quandry as to where to stow it-- anyplace out of the way is also too difficult to get to when you need the PFD in a great big hurry. I figureI'd be too busy trying to fly the airplane & then trying to get out after splashdown to go rummaging thru the seat backs, baggage compartment, etc.
I ended up tie-wrapping the PFD to the seat frame of the pilot's seat just below my right knee. My fire extinquisher is mounted to the seat-frame also, to the left of the PFD. I made sure that both are easy to retrieve while seated in flying position. I passed on a raft,I figured that by the time I retrieved & inflated it I'd be drowned or hypothermic anyway.
Years ago, a flying friend gave me some good advice-- he said if ya have to ditch out in the open water, just save yourself & everybody else a lot of trouble & swim straight for the bottom. I think maybe he was right!

Eric

I know several people who wear "float-coats". These are jackets or vests that have a built-in CO-inflatable bladder so they can serve as a PFD. The CO pull-ring is concealed behind a velcro'd patch in the chest area for easy access. They're fairly stylish, they look like something Eddie Bauer would sell (maybe they do?), you'd never know to look at them that they're PFD's. They're available at your better marine & seaplane supply houses. I would guess that they're kinda spendy, but they'd be alot more likely to be on me & out the door with me (like Gunny sez) than an old funky yellow Mae West contraption like what I have now. Load up the float-coat pockets with a chocolate bar, a pair of silk stockings, & your trusty .45 and you're ready for anything!
I just looked at the Stearns website link Gunny posted. they sell a nylon "inflatable sportsman's vest" with a buncha pockets for survival gear for about $150. It's not as stylish as the float-coats my friends wear, but it looks like it can sure carry alot more gear in the pockets!
Is that what you have Gunny?

Eric

Oh, the PFD I got was an Eastern Aero Marine , I can't recall if it's the single-cell or the double. They list for $35 & $60 respectively from Chief Aircraft, plus $20 hazmat S&H-- I got mine for $20 from National Aviation at KBFI (big discount for being slightly out-of-date on the certification).

Eric

Like some sweet Ralph Lauren stain and wrinkle-proof Nomex chinos, with matching monogrammed tweed fitted Nomex PFD with my country club's crest. I want to look more like Mr. Howell from Gilligan's Island than some sort of military pilot/Gorton's fisherman.

Okay, I'll 'fess up-- I actually carry an inflated log-truck tire in the airplane for a PFD. That's short for "plane flotation device"-- I figure it'll keep the whole darn airplane afloat if I have to ditch. And I can't afford nomex, so to avoid having nylon etc melt all over me in a fire I fly "au naturale".
I get some funny looks when I de-plane, but at least by God I'm safe!

Eric

Don't forget to stay away from the water activated type of PFD's. The last thing you need in a water upset is to have the your PFD inflate while you are still in the cabin. I personaly have never gone over in the cub but I guess it can happen real fast on a down wind taxi, big boat wake, wheels down on water or any of a 1000 different situations. Survival in any environment is 99% mental attitude.

Will

I like to joke around but this IS a deadly-serious subject, and I like to think I take it seriously. I had a partial engine failure (broken connecting rod) 4 years ago at about 1700' over the salt water just north of Anacortes. I limped back to the airport there making partial power, so it was a non-event-- but it woulda been a whole different show if the engine had just flat quit.
I have a little different perspective on flying over the salt water or across the Cascades now. In fact, people have kidded me about climbing to 4500' for a direct flight to the San Juans from PT. Well, even 4500 ain't any too high if the fan stops. My minimum is 3,000', I figure that'll give me enough time to at least call ATC & say a prayer. I've seen other people head out on the same trip at a thousand feet or less over the open water-- no thanks. Murphy's Law, & all that.

Eric

zero.one.victor wrote:In fact, people have kidded me about climbing to 4500' for a direct flight to the San Juans from PT. Well, even 4500 ain't any too high if the fan stops. My minimum is 3,000'Eric

Hah! I thought I was the only one who did that. I'll stay at 2500' if I'm east of Smith Island, but anything west of there I want at least 3500' under me (or more if I'm going between the islands and Port Angeles). That will at least give me time to don my airline style lifevest and tell Whidbey where I'm going down since I'm probably already talking to them anyway.

Maybe we should get a group together that wants to go do the egress training in Victoria together (and maybe get a group discount). If people are interested I'll contact them about a group rate.

-Doug
N234F (KORS)

By the way, the other place for egress training in B.C. is Aviation Egress Systems in Victoria (http://www.dunk-you.com/).

-Doug
N234F (KORS)

I've sent an email to the people in Victoria to see if they offer a group rate and to find out how many people we would need to sign up to have a full class. I'll let you know what I find out.

-Doug
N234F (KORS)

The response I got from Aviation Egress Systems is that if 10 people sign up together for the class, the 11th is free. The normal price is $250 CAD + GST, so if we split the discount evenly a class of 11 would be $227.27 CAD+GST per person or about $185 USD+GST. They are located in Victoria, BC.

Anyone interested can send me email at [email protected] and let me know how many people and what dates work for you. I'll try to coordinate one or more classes from there.

-Doug
N234F (KORS)

Bump!

So I've got responses from about 5 people that are interested (6 including myself). I'm looking at scheduling something in late March or early April. Anyone else interested? Send me email at the above address.

-Doug
N234F (KORS)