I mean this more as a question than a rant, honest.
Had a reposition flight yesterday, moved the cub to S23 from 70S, and the Pacer vice versa. Briefed the flights in the morning, all went well. 15ish+ miles of viz the whole time. Briefing included a TFR just east of DEW, no big deal - overfly the airport and make appropriate radio calls.
Got back before 1, all good. Looked at skyvector later in the afternoon, TFR popped up right next to 70S for a fire that's been burning a couple days. https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_1_5493.html
Went active before it was posted by 4 minutes. Hmmm. Had I not needed to get home earlier for work, I'd have blown right through it totally unaware - not great cell reception at S23. My normal route would have been fine, but I'd have run through it in my effort to avoid the other TFR(no longer active as of this post).
I usually pick up flight following when I'm travelling far, but there's no radio coverage let alone radar when I'm flying the river locally.
Also of note, many of us like to go camping for a few days where such coverage isn't available either.
Anyone heard of related issues with pop-up TFRs re:enforcement? Not asking anyone to self-incriminate, I'm not the FAA but I do hope they're reading. Am I too worried - does doing your best and using common sense prevail?
Since it could come up in relation - I'm generally pro ADSB. We have in/out on the R182, it's a great safety tool. I'd like to equip it on the other planes. But, with a situation like this and the chance that a database query would be all that's needed to ding you per regulation, it rubs me the wrong way a bit.
What's everyone else doing for briefing/awareness on this?

Side note - I was on a helitack crew for a couple years. This was 15 years ago, but we never had a problem with aircraft conflict. This is one where seeing and avoiding fires seems like it'd be most of it, and exercising appropriate caution and courtesy would be the rest. I understand filing TFRs from the liability perspective, it just feels a bit capricious from a regulatory standpoint.

Understand your problem. What I do is just stay away from any fire you see but that can be part of the problem. Visibility was down to 7 or fewer miles yesterday so in that situation you may not be able to see the fire before it is too late and you bust the TFR. As visibility decreases I tend to fly lower remaining in contact with the ground. As you fly lower you are likely to lose ground station coverage on your ADS-B so you can miss a TFR popping up. Don't know the answer to this problem other than to stay away from all the fires you can see. If visibility gets real tight then you are taking your chances. With ADS-B in you should be able to see all the aircraft working in an area where there is no airport and could assume it is a TFR

FAR 91.103 states 'Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight'

Did you get a briefing before the proposed flight you didn't take? If I had and it didn't include the TFR, which I then flew through and later found out about, I'd consider filing a NASA ASRS report stating I got all available info, the TFR wasn't listed, and I then flew through a TFR inadvertently. This would cover a pop-up I didn't know about. No harm, likely no foul.

As an aside, I was trying to depart an airport about 20 minutes before a TFR for an airshow about 5 miles away started. I needed to get about 2 miles in 20 minutes to be out of the TFR. I called Departure after my runup to get Flight Following so I could play in the system. I was ordered not to depart, as the TFR was starting 'soon'. We ended up waiting two and a half hours until it ended. Not sure what would have happened if I had just left. I would not have been in violation of a TFR, but of a command from Departure. I called the Tower and talked to the Supervisor a couple days later (who was the controller who told me not to depart) and got nowhere. Ughh.

If you frequently or even occasionally fly in country where fires occur, and where ADS-B or cell service are spotty, consider subscribing to Sirius XM Satellite Weather.

Good weather everywhere, and TFRs as soon as they pop up.

I’ve used it for a number of years and won’t leave home without.

MTV

I used to rarely use flight following. Now, if I’m flying to and from airports I always use it, TFR’s are just one of the many things that FF will assist with.

Thanks all.
Guess it comes down to briefing a flight with what's available - kicker is what's available at home with phone and internet coverage is not the same as what's available at remote strips where even FF and ADSB tower coverage are not.
Of late in E WA it's been generally hazy, flying around TFRs it's fairly common they don't have visible fire or smoke plume - most of the stuff around town isn't large crown fires. Would be pretty easy to bust even though you're nowhere near visible fire.
Good call on the Sirius XM, likely cheaper than a satellite phone and better awareness in the air.

Keep in mind that the FAA TFR map they themselves update and publish "...is for informational purposes only..." and doesn't meet the requirement for preflight info. It says you have to use the text version and/or other available briefings.

And the XM system is also not enough...the terms of service clearly stated the last time I read them that they are not responsible for timely or accurate TFR information. They used to have a lot of errors anyway several years ago.

So NOTAMS and squinting at maps to locate the TFR descriptors without errors may be the only truly safer bet to be sure about them.

That’s precisely where Sirius XM Weather pays off. No need for internet, ADS-B or cell service.

Also, TFRs are frequently established over heli based, helitack camps, etc. in those ashes, they may be close to a fire, like several miles away, but no fire in the TFR.

So, don’t count on using smoke column to avoid a TFR.

Seriously, look at Sirius XM Weather.

MTV

X2 - $29.99 month.

This is not a political question looking for opinions or complaints.

It is a legal question being asked of anyone versed in aviation law.

(And I may have misunderstood what was previously said. So please correct me if I have misconstrued anything.)

I understand the rationale for TFRs, and the practical reasons to avoid them. But by what legal basis can a TFR be enforced if it is not properly published?

I'm not asking for debate over what "ougt to be." I'm really just shaking my head trying to understand.

That’s a good question. I spoke to the Sirius guys here at OSH about TFRs. They acknowledged that the information provided to the public can sometimes be in error. They’ve detected erroneous information provided by the FAA.

The FAA takes TFR busts seriously. I know a pilot who was violated for entering a TFR. She fought it, arguing that the TFR expired a short time before she flew in that airspace.

With radar tapes, she was able to prove this to be true. The case was dropped, but she had to go through a. bunch of hoops.

MTV

The hoops are there to make the FAA look good. AOPA legal services can help with the hoops.

Is Sirius one of the official briefing sites?

The meta data for all the EFB software I've seen says the software is for prelimnary flight planning... not to be relied on to avoid wx or TFRs. MVR in smoke probably isn't what Garmin or Foreflight were really designed for.

I’m a Aviation Officer, air attack and a private pilot in Idaho. I try to be very conscience of GA and keeping TFR small practical and removing them as soon as possible. Unfortunately, many of my colleagues are so out of touch when the rest of the world that that are clueless. The FAA has tried to crack down and call out these fires who put up such over the top TFR’s that block half the state at times. Keep pushing back of these TFRs especially now that you can see the traffic on ADSP.

huntskifly wrote:The FAA has tried to crack down and call out these fires who put up such over the top TFR’s that block half the state at times. Keep pushing back of these TFRs especially now that you can see the traffic on ADSP.

Good advice. Every fire TFR has a phone number for the office in charge of the fire. A polite phone call that asks for the TFR to be as least impactful as possible, and reduced or eliminate as soon as possible helps the people in charge understand that TFRs can (and do) create unsafe conditions for GA when they are too big or too high. When they block passes or valleys the restricted airspace pushes us out over steep terrain where an off airport landing would be tough to do without serious injuries or fatalities.