The 45 acp was the old standby for the military forever. Then sombody thought the 9mm was the hot set up. Sounds like somthing Sec Defence McNamara came up with. Army SS has gone back to the 45 cus it still cannot be beat as a reliable hand gun. Double action Sig P220 is always with me, cept in Mexico that is.

Did anybody read what Sargeant York did with one in WW I. Seven rounds-seven dead or dying Germans.

My 2 cents

Tim

PS, as long as we are in the BCP gun forum, I landed at Grahm Idaho last weekend. Told a friend about it and he said that in early Summer the squirel hunting is out of this world. Like to take my .17 rimfire for that. Lets plan a varmit killing fly-in

Tim

qmdv,

I have investigated more DLP (defense of life and/or property) kills of bears than I care to recall. With one exception, they were all done with long guns. The handgun case, the bear was chewing on the guy's ankle at the time. He had the presence of mind to stick the .357 in her ear and torch one off. The guy who was supposed to be "protecting" him, in other words the guy who had the "real" gun, was lying underneath them both at the time, somewhat indisposed.

Sgt. York wasn't shooting bears. Humans are MUCH easier to stop than critters, most times, but not always. Not a valid comparison, in any case.

I've shot brown bears, and I can tell you that they can take tremendous punishment.

I once necropsied a bear that was killed with a .338. In the process, I found three bullets that'd been there a while. I measured them: .375 cal. He'd taken three .375 rounds at some point in his career, and kept on tickin. They were old.

I doubt most Germans could do that, though I've met a few Norwegians.....

MTV

qmdv wrote:The 45 acp was the old standby for the military forever. Then sombody thought the 9mm was the hot set up.

That was actually for "standardization" with NATO and a belief that the days of the pistol were over. The "rediscovery" of the need for a hard hitting (ball ammo only IAW various international treaties), readily available handgun has brought the .45 to the fore again. Notice the recent return to the 7.62mm M-14 for those allowed more latitude in a carry weapon.

In the immortal (or is that immoral?) words of my first team sergeant "... 9mm may expand, but .45 don't shrink"

I think, regardless of how we feel about handguns, calibers, and even guns in general, that we can all agree the best defense against bear attack is altitude - 50' above one is just about right.

Don, KR5T
US Army, Retired


Tim - what do you think of the .17HMR? I ordered a Savage rifle from the local gun store last week (I'm left handed and they don't stock LH guns) and picked up a Ruger Single Six Hunter yesterday at the gun show.

I love guns and have a hole #hit pot of em. I hear the experts say bear spray works better and you aim doesn't have to be as good. I work for the Fire dept in Portland and have seen my share of gun shots. To make a hole like that would take a rocket I think. Regards...Rob

If the photos are the ones I think they are, they were posted over at supercub.org as a bear attack. It appears that they may be from something else, though. The ankle shot was, I believe, an almost contact-distance wound from a .223 rifle.

Regardless what caused the injuries, the whole scenario sucks. Ouch!

Jon B.

ps: if I'm heading into bear country, I'm wearing a double-action .44mag with heavy, hard bullets, and carrying an 870 12 gauge stoked with slugs. I have a .300 Win. Mag. rifle but the 12 is faster to unlimber and operate. The .300 also doesn't have any open sights, and I ain't using a 'scope for up close & personal work.

If I'm heading into bear country, I am cooking a distance from where I am sleeping, storing my food and meat where I cook and not where I sleep, keeping food smells away from my tent, making noise while I'm moving (unless I'm hunting of course), and doing the right things when I see a bear.

In twenty years of working and playing in bear country, I've yet to have to shoot a bear, or shoot myself in the foot either for that matter

I try not to judge people who shoot bears in self-defense, if I think it was indeed self-defense and not some BS story cooked up to justify bagging a bear out-of-season or where they are protected (yes it happens.) That being said, after experiencing some bear charges over the years, investigating a few incidents and reading accounts of a lot more, I would sooner rely on the oleo-capsicum sprays designed for bear than a pistol or even rifle. And this from someone who regularly combat trains with firearms. A shotgun would be my second choice, loaded with buckshot or better yet large birdshot. Who cares if it kills the bear? I just want the animal traveling the other direction.

I've never seen a bear killed with a .45acp but I've seen a human in that condition, and that is why I have a handgun of that caliber strapped to my hip at work.

Bears have been killed with one shot from a .22, and lived after multiple hits from a large caliber hunting rifle. I've never heard of nor seen a bear do anything other than retreat after walking into a cloud of OC spray. While it's true that OC spray doesn't always work as intended (in strong winds or headwinds for example) I'll play the percentages and use the spray if possible, and do the things in my first paragraph above - do that and you will likely never have to worry about the rest of it (the times I was charged I was sneaking around in the brush.)

Just my $0.02, there are situations where shooting a bear in self-defense or otherwise is completely appropriate and I don't mean this as a left-wing tree-hugger rant by any means. Just my experience.

BTW: It would be a sorry, boring world indeed if we were always at the top of the food chain, all the time, everywhere, wouldn't it?

In Canada they sell Bear Bangers, it is a pencile sized launcher with what appears to be a party popper screwed onto one end. Point the thing in the direction of the bear and release the trigger divice and it shoots a projectle with a very loud report out about 40 meters or so.

They can be bought in Canada and brought back to the states but cannot be shipped in.

All reports from the Cannuks is that they work very well.

I wonder why we do not have them here.

soaringhiggy wrote:In Canada they sell Bear Bangers, it is a pencile sized launcher with what appears to be a party popper screwed onto one end. Point the thing in the direction of the bear and release the trigger divice and it shoots a projectle with a very loud report out about 40 meters or so.

They can be bought in Canada and brought back to the states but cannot be shipped in.

All reports from the Cannuks is that they work very well.

I wonder why we do not have them here.

Someone used one in the park last week, when a griz came uncomfortably close...their report was that the bear took off faster 'n hell like it had been scalded. The only bad part was the third-party report we originally got, which was that persons unknown were "shooting" at a bear. Took a little while to straighten out

Bear bangers used to be available in this country, from a Canadian suppliers.

Basically a little explosive device that screws onto the end of what looks like a small handgun.

They work fine.

They also light wildfires like crazy.

Note that you can get the same result using cracker shells in your shotgun. Cracker shells make a heck of a bang. Not as compact as the bear bangers, but..

You can also launch bean bag rounds from a 12 gauge shotgun. Bean bags put a certain hurt on a bear, and will definitely put one on the run.

I'm a big advocate of shotguns for bear protection, in large part because they are versatile in their uses.

MTV

Over the last few years and especially this year, I have spent quite a bit of time as a guest in bear country. Understanding that I am not at the top of the food chain, I too travel lightly as "Once" stated. There is little excuse for common sense. Keep a clean camp and make noise. I have never had a bad encounter with the locals. Encounters, yes but we both retreated to our respective corners and check each other out. I chalk those up as my fault. Down wind and quite. When I'm hunting for bear, that's a good thing but at the time (two-weeks ago) I was on Knight Island PWS hunting for deer and the Blackie season was closed.
That's not to say I go naked (unarmed) when out for a hike or such. It's either a 12 ga w/slugs or a .45-70. No pistolas, I know my weakness' and snap shooting a short gun is one of them. I'll leave that to JMTGT's of the world. I am however, looking forward to the local bear population getting off of their salmon diet so we can get a good eating one. In our area we can take three-blacks and two-Grizzlies this year and no Moose at all this year. Can you say Predator area?

Bearbangers and flares, at: http://www.macecanada.com/

They say they ship to the US.

MTV