Hello, first time poster here. I thought this would be an appropriate forum to ask some questions regarding the type of flying I wish to do. I'm a seasonal Canadian helicopter pilot. With approx 800hrs including 60hr flying Cessna 150/152/172. I stopped flying fixed wing in 2003. Due largely to the high rental costs in my area (Cessna 172 now $166). Just last winter I began flying a private Cessna 150. I'd pay a small fee to use and I provided fuel and insurance. I didn't expect to use it much. But to my surprise I was off on adventures everyday! Cost average $95.00 hr. Although it was a good deal. I have to wonder about purchasing my own plane. The 150 was a little tired and I'd like to have pride of ownership.

I wish to purchase a plane with moderate performance. Minimal operating and fuel costs. Avgas in my area is selling for $2.00-$3.25 a litre ($7.56-$12.28 US Gallon). Making a mogas operation much more affordable. I am most interested in exploring grass strips of 1800' , camping, ski flying. I would say 60% of the time by myself 40% with one passenger.

I've been focusing on planes such as the Cessna 140/150/152. My budget is $15 000-$25 000. I've had to shy away from fabric airplanes for lack of a hangar. There is literally no space to be had! So I will be forced to tie down outside on the ramp.

Recently I've found a very nicely cared for Pa-20 Pacer 150hp. With a full set of covers can these planes be left outside? Can the internal tubing be inspected accurately before purchase? I looked at a Pa-22 tri-pacer two yrs ago for sale. It looked good but I passed on it. It was purchased and stripped for rebuild by another individual. When the fabric came off. The tubing was complete garbage. Full of corrosion and holes.

I have zero tail dragger time. Is the Pa-20 an inherent ground looper? What are they like as a fun run around plane? If anyone has suggestions or advice for me I'd like you to share.

Thanks

at $8-12 bucks a gallon i would be thinking rotax.
There are some really good preforming two place planes with 912's that sip mogas.

Problem with a tricycle is your gonna have trouble ski flying with it. A nice small taildragger would be better for your mission I think. A pa-20 or even a Citabria 7-ECA may fit the bill. The Citabria is quite docile on the ground and not to bad on fuel burn. The 15-25 price limit is a toughy, as I'm sure you noticed plane prices haven't declined as much in Canada.
Where abouts are you in Canada?
David

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I have looked at the rotax 912 option. I flew a Savage Cub in Toronto which was powered by one. Very nice running and low fuel consumption. But it seems rinky dink ultralights here in Canada using 912. Are priced higher then comparable certified planes.
I'm on the east coast of Canada. Planing on flying NS, PEI, NB, Nfld. Planes are hard to find here for sale. I've been to every airport, basement, barn & backyard tracking them down. Now I am considering traveling as far as Ontario for one. I think a Citabria 7eca would be perfect for me. But a reasonable priced one in good shape is hard to find.
Your correct A1Skinner. Planes here in Canada have not budged in price. I am all so running into a lot of planes that are "for sale but not for sale". One guy accepted my offer on his plane. I spent a few hundred dollars on a pre-purchase. I went to pay him and he backed out. People really love their planes up here. They have a hard time parting with them.

Ya, I guess we really like our planes up here. I'm over in Alberta and imported a 7GCBC from Maine last September. But I was into it for about 45 after the import process. Another bit for 31" abws and baby bush wheel. But she's a sweet bird. I'll keep my ears and eyes open for a decent 7eca for ya. Keep us posted on anything you find.
David

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There is a sweet Clipper (Piper PA-16) for sale here on this site. I'd be all over that plane if I didn't have a good one already. PA 20 and PA 22/20s are not ground loopers. Pilots without skills and/or do not know theirs or the plane's limitations are. I got my tailwheel training in a clipper and moved on to a Pacer and now fly a 172 with the tailwheel conversion. If you learn in one (Pacer or Clipper), you will be that much better if you fly a longer coupled plane (a plane with more distance between main gear and tail wheel). The Pacers and the Clipper are the best value in aviation.

I think in that price range, and with those high of fuel prices, I would try to find something with a c-65 or c-85 that doesn't burn much gas. Something like a Taylorcraft, luscombe, Aeronca, 120, 140 ect. Most of these are fabric or have fabric wings but that shouldn't be too big of a deal leaving it outside. Just look around any of the airports in AK. Lots of fabric airplanes and they've spent most of there lives outside in some pretty harsh conditions. Just get some good covers for it. You say you'll be by yourself most of the time and NF has pretty cool temps and low elevations I think you'd be happy with one of these planes. A lot more fun than a C-150 also.

This 140 is for sale by me!!

What about a 172 or 170?

Partly depends on what you're going to do with it. When I moved to a 172 from a 150 I went from 6gph to 8gph (actually a little less with leaning...) but the speed increase made the fuel burn pretty much a wash if I was going places. Something to consider when looking.

For 7-12$ per gallon something that burns 4-5pgh is gonna be a hell of a lot cheaper than 8gph. And a 172 isn't that much faster than a taylorcraft/luscombe/120 which might do 110mph+ with the right prop.

Been all day and nobody has said it yet??

Just get a Mall!!

I can afford to go to the shopping Mall but can not afford to go shopping for a Maule. To bad since this one is in my neighborhood.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... ID=1242351

Hi Norm. I see you just joined and not sure you knew about the long lasting joke here on BCP. I'm not even sure how it started. But seems like whenever somebody asks about what plane to get, there's always at least one person that mentions "just get a Maule"

Ok since the general thought is fabric airplanes will be ok outside with proper attention. What is the overall opinion on wooden spar Champs C-90, Citabria 7eca style planes?

I am (would) looking for a RANS S7 or (S7S). Cheap fuel burn with reportedly a decent performance.

That said I owned a C-120 for a few years. It did ok if you we're alone & kept it light. (Mine did not have electrical or starter, hence I sold due to winter flying) Fun little plane & would cruise good on 85 horsies.

I also look at piper J5 (early pa12). Sometimes they are a sleeper when they have an engine upgrade.

Best of luck & yeah "just get a maule" (M4 on barnstormes for $27,000)

Byebill

Do W/B on the aircraft you are looking at before you purchase. Include the clothing and safety equipment needed in your location and for future missions. My STC's and personal equipment require at least a 180HP and a C/S prop bottom line.

cessnaford wrote:I am (would) looking for a RANS S7 or (S7S). Cheap fuel burn with reportedly a decent performance.

Byebill

I think you would be pretty hard pressed to find a decent S7 in the price range the OP is looking at. Granted, I did see one on BS a while back for close to that price but it didn't have a Rotax in it. If I remember correctly it had a Jabiru.

Not to get OT but what does it cost to import a plane into Canada from the US. I know of guys that have bought planes in Canada and imported them back here but haven't really spoken to anyone that has bought one here and brought up to Canada. Is it a major headache or fairly straight forward?
I'm asking since I have had a couple of responses from our brothers 'up nort' in regards to my Champ that is for sale. They seem hesitant to import. I think most of it is due to being scared or inundated with the process of doing so.
Simple or Difficult?

WWhunter wrote:

cessnaford wrote:I am (would) looking for a RANS S7 or (S7S). Cheap fuel burn with reportedly a decent performance.

Byebill

I think you would be pretty hard pressed to find a decent S7 in the price range the OP is looking at. Granted, I did see one on BS a while back for close to that price but it didn't have a Rotax in it. If I remember correctly it had a Jabiru.

Not to get OT but what does it cost to import a plane into Canada from the US. I know of guys that have bought planes in Canada and imported them back here but haven't really spoken to anyone that has bought one here and brought up to Canada. Is it a major headache or fairly straight forward?
I'm asking since I have had a couple of responses from our brothers 'up nort' in regards to my Champ that is for sale. They seem hesitant to import. I think most of it is due to being scared or inundated with the process of doing so.
Simple or Difficult?

I just imported a 7GCBC last November. I found it was fairly easy. The biggest things are modifications. If all the paperwork is in line, then its easy. The other things are engines. They have to ha e been overhauled by a certified shop. And fixed pitched props require a overhaul every 10 years, regardless of time. The actual import cost me $2500. That was ha king a fed sign off on all the papers and go through the plane. I did have my AME go through it first and make sure it was in tip top shape, And I do recommend this step.

David

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If you like flying the 150 just buy one while your looking for your next plane. They are cheap to buy, maintain and every part you will ever need is on ebay for pennies of what a new part costs. Mogas works fine too. There is always a market for them and you can usually get what you paid for them when you sell. Just don't restore one because you'll never get that money back. Just fly and have fun.