Starting to get the itch to work on something again, and thinking Exp supercub type aircraft.

A little history: I built a Vans RV8 kit a while back, and rebuilt an A1 Husky a few years ago with my dad. Both he and I are looking for another project, and I am leaning towards something I can use on wheels, amphibs, or retractable skis.

Any thoughts? I feel like 2 seats are all I need, as between Dad and I we are fortunate enough to have a 4 seat plane to use if I take the family anywhere.

Thanks for the thoughts!!

I say do it!
Sounds like a great way to spend your time. Really the fun starts now with choosing an airframe and planning your project, and then continues in the shop.

In terms of an "exp. super cub type aircraft", I would go for something a little faster at the top of the range, but still excellent in a STOL setting and with all the same load carrying capability, like a Patrol. It ticks the wheels / amphibs / skis box too, all proven to work well with the Patrol.

This should be a fun discussion

If you are going to do retractable skis/amphibs it is nice to have some power. So airframe should handle 150 or bigger especially if you head west to the hills. How short do you want to land take off? IFR/VFR? Just some things to think about.
DENNY

Rebuild another Husky and you will have a machine that will meet and exceed all your criteria you listed.

Great all around airplane!

Kurt

I still have the Husky, I am just having a hard time justifying the cost of certified amphibs, so I would like to try something experimental again. I would eventually sell the Husky and replace it with this project.

I am thinking simply vfr, with a glass panel. I kind of have 180 hp in mind.

I have long legs, so the standard supercub is cozy, but doable. How does a patrol compare?

Thanks for the replies!!

Lance

your to close to a 4 inch wider body cub from Brainerd, minn not to check into it.

Murphy Rebel/Radical/Yukon worth looking at, and you could build some kit amphib floats from them while you're at it.

With your build experience, it seems the PA-18 type kits out there get good reviews and shouldn't be daunting considering your skills. I've been a long time "lurker" on the PA-18 experimental subject. It's probably the direction i'll go if i build.

To me, in that world you have two directions (or decisions) to make. Do you want a super-hot rod "really experimental" bird like an SQ2 or the Carbon Cub EX....or do you want a more traditional PA-180 with the mods you want thats EX-AB.

Once you make that decision, I've read a lot of good things about the SQ2 support as well as the Carbon Cub ex.

The traditional PA-18 (amateur built) has always been most intriguing to me because so many of the parts/mods are familiar and "factory"..(most but not all). I think a fresh built PA-18-180 with a modern composite prop, wide body fuselage, and tons of storage would be awesome. Tiny electrical system, BASIC panel utilizing the lightest panel-integrated handheld avionics would be cool. i have not built one yet, but Javron, Dakota and couple others seem to make great kits.

59SC

lancef53 wrote:I have long legs, so the standard supercub is cozy, but doable. How does a patrol compare?

Thanks for the replies!!

Lance

I understand the Patrol has a larger cabin than a standard Cub.

lancef53 wrote:I have long legs, so the standard supercub is cozy, but doable. How does a patrol compare?

I am building a Patrol, and the cabin is significantly larger than my Citabria, which in turn is larger than a Cub. The Patrol is about 31" wide, and the door-to-seat spacing makes it much easier to get in/out. There will be several at OSH this year you'll be there.

How about a Kitfox? One of the most complete kits out there. Can go on floats, skis or wheels and they are just a blast to fly! Plus they dont break the bank, which is always a plus.

The kit isn't out yet (per orders I think?) but the RANS S21 is shaping up to look impressive!
Designed with 180hp titan in mind
sub 1000 lbs empty weight / 1800 gross (+6-4g loading - not ultimate!)
2 seat, good room in the cabin - side by side (my s6 is smaller than this cabin and I fit - not great, but I fit and I'm 6'4" 240lbs... I'm jealous of the s20/21 room inside!)
Tail or nosewheel switchable
All metal no fabric, very fast build construction
38mph expected stall, 155mph expected cruise... and being exp easy to throw on vg's and maybe get that stall down some more
Pretty solid performance numbers if it meets expectations
Only real complaint folks have had was the low-ish fuel tank size, but RANS release a statement saying they will have an option for larger fuel
https://www.rans.com/s-21-outbound

GK: The 38 mph stall of the S-21 with the 28' span AND the 985 lb. empty weight, is..... interesting. Keeping in mind RANS has always been very conservative in their performance numbers they quote, kind of like VANS, I guess I'd have to believe it but wow that seems pretty low? I'm not sure I'm ready to give up a chrome moly fuselage and the economy of the 912S though, the all metal construction just isn't that big of draw for me I guess. I have a hangar, and like the ease of repair fabric offers, and I'm not convinced a metal wing surface is necessarily "better" then fabric. I've heard a metal wing will maintain the "true" airfoil better, but if the fabric wing is designed right? To me the difference is having drywall in your home versus paneling, scratch the paneling and the repair is difficult. Punch a hole in the sheet rock in a drunken rage (just saying) and you can make it look like new pretty easily, (ESPECIALLY if it was Oratex, which I would for sure use if I build again) is that a fair comparison? Whatever, it's good to see Randy still coming up with new designs and I agree that it looks like the 21 would push the buttons for a lot of pilots.

I do have some serious stick time coming up in a S-20, long enough to decide if I want to go back to side by side seating in order to get that big ass baggage area, as it has the S-7 wing I should feel right at home, other then the seating thing. I already have it figured out how, without the passenger seat, I could sleep in the thing, and have also already trial fitted my folding electric mountain bike in one. It fit real easily without any awkward contortions to get it in there (it'd be practical to do it often and quickly in other words, without being a PITA) and there was easily enough room left over to equal my current baggage space in the 7, PLUS still having a front passenger seat! The only way I can carry my bike now is without the rear seat.

I know what you mean, if it comes in right around that 38mph number that is going to be phenomenal performance... huge speed envelope! Hard to imagine, but I'm hopeful Randy has a little magic up his sleeve or something!

Not to get too off topic, but what get's me going is there is talk of Randy putting the new metal s21 wing on an s20/7.

Some cool benefits there like a ridiculously high g loading, only 1 strut so better for photo ops/drag. Pretty good speed and stall potential with the lighter plane etc. Thinking that wing, about 125-140hp out of something light (turbo rotax, yamaha yg1 etc.) Still Light Sport but huge load and g load capability could be fun. Dreaming out loud again.

Anyway, back on topic, one thing, the s21 is actually still chromoly around the passengers. It's basically an s20 from firewall to tail... the tail is metal like a cessna. Interesting. I know it's been done that way before, I want to say my buddies Helio is like this essentially.




Looking forward to hearing your thoughts after spending some time with an s20! Be interesting to see if you feel drawn to switch back to side by side setup! Always enjoy your thoughts on things!

I'll be interested also.

Wow, those are some impressive number on the S21. Thanks for the replies! I really need to get back to Oshkosh and crawl around some of these planes.

That S21 does look great, but man I'd sure like a tandem for STOL. Just like the extra visibility. Or are these smaller side by sides better in the way if visibility then say a C180?

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A1Skinner wrote:That S21 does look great, but man I'd sure like a tandem for STOL. Just like the extra visibility. Or are these smaller side by sides better in the way if visibility then say a C180?

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I have experience with the S20. I believe the S21 is the same cockpit. Very comfortable seating if you like to fly laying down. I have a hard time with it for off-roading. I am about 6' and I cannot see either main gear from either seat. My buddy we helped with the build loves it and doesn't like the S7. To each their own, Randy has a model to suit all needs. [emoji106]

Briefly, there has been some discussion from the factory of optionally using flush rivets on the S-21’s wings for extra speed. Trike and TW configurations are possible, and I think swapping back and forth is not a major deal.

Here is a link to the Rans Builder enthusiast website. There is a specific S-21 Outbound discussion area that has threads about possible engine options, panel configurations, build modifications, extended gas tanks capacity, cargo pods, possibilities for LSA build configurations, and more.

Link: http://www.ransclan.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?66-S-21

Also this little snippet from the Rans Official Company Website:
S-21 OutBound

.
Surround Yourself
A lot of thought goes into aircraft design. And safety is something we like to design into
a model. We are big believers is surrounding the pilot and passenger with a
crashworthy structure. This can be achieved in many ways. In the S-19 there is a high
number of channels, stringers, and varying skin thickness to affect a “crash tub” that
will retain shape in the event of an uncontrolled adverse impact. In the humble little
Coyote ultralight, there is a network of aluminum tubes that also retain cabin shape.
In the Coyote II , Raven and Courier we use welded steel tubing cages that surround you
with protection. This is a proven system that not only provides safety, but building
ease. Going the extra mile to build in safety may not impress everyone, but in the
end it does benefit all.

Link: https://media.wix.com/ugd/6e941e_ca521e0a95ff4ed69b69174f0a0a8890.pdf

A1Skinner wrote:That S21 does look great, but man I'd sure like a tandem for STOL. Just like the extra visibility. Or are these smaller side by sides better in the way if visibility then say a C180?

There are strong rumours that a follow-on project to the S-21 for Rans will be a similar tandem version, like a hybrid S7S in much the same way that the S-21 is a hybrid of the S-20.

Add 2 ft carbon wing tip extensions, the Roberts or Berringer gear, VGs, bushwheels and the result would be an exceptional backcountry plane.