I have an upcoming ferry flight from the east coast to Southern California in a taildragger with no transponder. With the requirements needing a transponder above 10,000 feet, does anyone have any recommendations on a route to fly? I think I will also have to coordinate with the LAX air traffic controllers to let me inside the Mode C veil without a transponder, but I dont think that should be a problem. Id love to fly through the most interesting scenery I can get without having to go off course too much. Any advice, thoughts, tips, or anything else is greatly appreciated!

well, whatchya flyin there slick?
and what part of the east coast ya leavin from.
right off the bat. I'd be thinkin link up w/ I-40, and go.

I know you used to be able to get a waiver from TSA for non-transponder flights through Canada. Maybe there's a similar waiver for your situation?

I agree with dstr59, fly I-40. Doesn't get much prettier then that.

Pacer17
Where in the basin do you need to go, several of us often escort friends through mode C as a flight when they have no transponder, lots of airstrips just out of mode C to meet at, If I am in the area be glad to fly with you.

The rule doesn't say you have to have a transponder above 10,000 feet msl. It says you have to have a transponder above 10,000 feet msl IF you are more than 2500 feet above the surface.

There aren't many passes through the mountains where you'd have to be above that altitude.

Look at charts. Lots of passes. If you've never flown in the mountains, you may not be qualified to do this trip, frankly. If you've flown in the mountains, you should know when to fly passes and when to park it.

MTV

mtv wrote:If you've never flown in the mountains, you may not be qualified to do this trip, frankly. If you've flown in the mountains, you should know when to fly passes and when to park it.

MTV

That is an excellent point Mike.

The Western mountains and high deserts can snuff out the very best pilots...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Fossett

...On March 5, 2009, the NTSB issued its report and findings.[88][89] It states that the plane crashed at an elevation of about 10,000 feet, 300 feet (91 m) below the crest of the ridge. The elevation of peaks in the area exceeded 13,000 feet (4,000 m). However, the density altitude in the area at the time and place of the crash was estimated to be 12,700 feet (3,900 m). The aircraft, a tandem two-seater, was nearly 30 years old, and Fossett had flown approximately 40 hours in this type. The plane's operating manual says that at an altitude of 13,000 feet (4,000 m) the rate of climb would be 300 feet per minute (about 1.5 m/s). The NTSB report says that "a meteorologist from Salinas provided a numerical simulation of the conditions in the accident area using the WRF-ARW (Advanced Research Weather Research and Forecasting) numerical model. At 0930 [the approximate time of the crash] the model displayed downdrafts in that area of approximately 300 feet per minute." There was no evidence of equipment failure. The report stated that a postmortem examination of the skeletal fragments had been performed under the auspices of the Madera County Sheriff's Department. The cause of death was determined to be multiple traumatic injuries.

On July 9, 2009, the NTSB declared the probable cause of the crash as "the pilot’s inadvertent encounter with downdrafts that exceeded the climb capability of the airplane. Contributing to the accident were the downdrafts, high density altitude, and mountainous terrain."[90][91]...

Ill be flying a Taylorcraft with an O200 on it. I like the idea of following I40. I have no problems flying in the big mountains (as in the rockies, unlike the "mountains" we have in NC.) I have made the trip before, but I usually have gone up to 10,500 and had flight following and such and a squawk code. I have always flown through Guadalupe pass when Im going the southern route out there, just wondering if anyone had any cool places or routes.

a couple of good books have been written about slow, low(er) performance aircraft being flown across the country. bach comes to mind
should be a real treat. a hundred horse t-craft should have no problems. when in doubt, leave early, fly the good air. stop when it gets rough, and enjoy the rest of what would be a hot bumpy ride in the afternoon, on the ground .
I remember a particularly beautiful afternoon, crossing western Arkansas, in full fall color

A couple of thoughts..

Does the T-craft have an electrical system? If not, there's no need for any waiver to get within the class B veil.

A non-electrical airplane can go within the 30 mile veil, and can even go under the shelves of both class B and class C airspace, however you cannot go over either one. I have a J3 that I fly inside the LAX veil all the time with no transponder. Just need to be very careful because of the traffic. I'm happiest around 500' - rarely is there anyone else that low, and judging by the waves I get, nobody seems to mind a Yellow Cub meandering by.

Note: If it EVER had an engine driven generator, technically you're no longer exempt even if it was subsequently removed.

I flew my Cub to OSH and back in 2012 for the 75th anniversary gathering. It can be done quite safely, but it does take planning. I only had 12 gallons, so I carried an extra 5 gallon jug in the front seat. I couldn't have made it without it. If you land somewhere for fuel and they dont have any for whatever reason (something I experienced multiple times on my trip despite my due diligence), you can find yourself in a real bind in a short-ranged airplane. Often airports with fuel can be 50-100NM apart, especially in the desert southwest.

From a terrain standpoint, the lowest place to cross is around El Paso. Unfortunately it can be hotter than hell. If you fly all day, it will be less than enjoyable. From sunrise until about 11am, it is magical. From 11 until about 1, it is annoying, and from 1PM on it can be pure hell. Hot, bumpy, and no way to avoid either one. I can't stress enough the advise above to take your time and plan on being done by noon or so each day. You might get a bit more smooth air this time of year, but don't count on it. The afternoon bumps suck the energy right out of you.

Make sure you carry lots of water, cold weather clothes (it gets cold quickly at night should you have to land out somewhere) and a PLB in addition the the ELT. Desolate does not begin to describe some the places you'll be flying over in NM, AZ and CA. My personal rule was to never fly further from a highway than I was comfortable walking.

If you're up for an extra day or two of flying, the trip through Sheridan, Bozeman, Helena, Missoula and Sandpoint is by far some of the most beautiful flying I've ever done and can be done at reasonable altitudes. The highest pass is 5500' or so, then all downhill to Sandpoint. Weather this time of year is getting cooler, so plan accordingly.

Whatever route you take, planning is critical in a low performance airplane (though an O200 T-craft is a pretty good performer). You absolutely have to have time buffers built in for weather delays (and you WILL be delayed or stopped short due to weather at some point). Dont mess with the wind anywhere near the mountains, and know that wherever you end up stopping, you will meet some great people and learn fascinating things about whatever community you've adopted for the night.

One of the best stops of my entire trip was when I got stuck in Dell City, TX with no fuel and no transportation.

It will be a great adventure, but be careful and don't push it.

If you take the I-40 route, you will find some of the prettiest landscape. Acoma Pueblo between Albuquerque and Grants, the lava flow south of Grants, El Moro between Grants and Gallup, lots of red rocks north of Gallup, and Canyon de Chelley up at Tsailie, AZ is smaller but just as dramatic as the Grand Canyon.

Can't say much for beyond Flagstaff until the Sierra Nevadas. Spent too much time at Ft. Irwin in a GP Medium with forty other medevac pilots.

All great ideas and great advice. Thanks guys. I will let everyone know how it goes

Depending on where you need to end up, I can offer you a little bit of assistance and/or infrastructure for you here in the northern part of the Los Angeles metro area. I've owned 4 T-crafts over the years.

Ferrying an 85 HP T-craft back from Michigan several years ago, I took the southern route through El Paso. Although the 100 HP engine will give you plenty of climb ability in higher terrain, you are still flying a feather light wing loading airplane that is pretty much the most weather-vaning and floaty of the whole bunch.

The I-40 route is likely to have more winds and more T-storms and more rain and more ice or snow, than the I-10 route through ELP in my opinion.

Fortunately from North Carolina it is a very small difference in the total distance either way, but my vote would be to take the route with the least headwinds and the least chance of weather. USUALLY this means the southern route, but that depends on the weather for that week.

EZFlap wrote:Depending on where you need to end up, I can offer you a little bit of assistance and/or infrastructure for you here in the northern part of the Los Angeles metro area. I've owned 4 T-crafts over the years.

Ferrying an 85 HP T-craft back from Michigan several years ago, I took the southern route through El Paso. Although the 100 HP engine will give you plenty of climb ability in higher terrain, you are still flying a feather light wing loading airplane that is pretty much the most weather-vaning and floaty of the whole bunch.

The I-40 route is likely to have more winds and more T-storms and more rain and more ice or snow, than the I-10 route through ELP in my opinion.

Fortunately from North Carolina it is a very small difference in the total distance either way, but my vote would be to take the route with the least headwinds and the least chance of weather. USUALLY this means the southern route, but that depends on the weather for that week.

Just back from Elizabeth town,North Carnolna in 182 -- lots of weather issues, airports reported open but not , disappear ing fuel farms , endless trees and lonely stretches of empty space . I 40 would work and you could stay lower - think I - 40 passes just north of Oak city airport and you may have to dodge 747s. Near ABQ. Your going to go higher than 10k until Gallup or so.

A little bit of thread drift: Flight of Passage, by Rinker about two brothers that fly a cub cross the country back in the early 60s. Fun read. This sounds like the trip I would love to do. Have fun and keep us updated with a trip log.

Big John is a good source to stay out of trouble in the LA area and it can be done quite easily. I've flown to the east coast several times from California, and have gone the El Paso route, the Rock Springs route, and several times the Albuquerque route, which I prefer. I only have a 150 mile range, and now I feel how lucky i am in that I had to make so many stops. Like Cannon, I believe it was Dell, Texas where I had to do an unscheduled landing, and as I walked to town for fuel, a rancher on his porch saw me, and asked if I was the pilot that landed. When I replied yes, he told me not to walk to town, and threw me his keys to his new pick up and told me where to get something to eat also. You don't have that happen stopping at busy regional towered airports.

Shot of I 40 heading east after waiting out weather. The day before I departed Moriarty three times trying to fight headwinds, and on one attempt saw my ground speed a steady 14-16 mph. Nothing like seeing you GPS showing a five hour ETE for a 78 mile flight to Santa Rosa. Half of the adventure was the flying, the other half the people. I really enjoyed this route and all involved.