In my not too many years of flying (six now?), about the smallest strip that I have used has been something about 45' wide by 1800' long, but in fairly wide open terrain, tree-wise. No big deal for a Skyhawk, right?

Well there's a local public grass strip that I've been wanting to go to that is essentially a 100' wide, 1950' long swath through a forest of very tall evergreens. I did a couple of somewhat low passes over it the other day (but not so low as to be below the treetops that line the runway) and the trees definitely psyched me out. 100' wide sounds plenty wide enough, but when you are on 1/2 mile final your brain (at least MY brain) has a hard time imagining how you're going to thread your wingspan through that teensy needle coming up ahead.

It's a psychological battle, more than anything. Virtually all my landings on 'normal' runways are on centerline and no longer than they need to be, but still... something about those trees.

Any advice on how to build up to something like this? Here's the strip in question: http://www.airnav.com/airport/S86

The photo makes it look downright tame compared to how it looks/feels in real life. I'm pretty sure the trees have grown some since that photo was taken (grown both out and up). I remember thinking that it looked like they could use a good pruning.

Here are a couple of crummy quality pix that I snapped during low passes at S86 yesterday. First one I got down pretty low and had to herd some horses off the runway, then I went around again...and the horses were still on the runway, so I went elsewhere. Notice how tall the trees seem off to the starboard side...they are definitely taller than the swath is wide.

I have a fun little strip i practiced on when i was starting out it is at a lake one end is in the lake and the rest of the strip is surounded by 50 to 70 ft trees The strip is about 60ft wide and 1500ft long I know what you mean about looking like the eye of a needle. The best advice i got is land the plane rite down the middle and forget about the wings. Before you do this have a good look for fallen trees and stuff hanging out onto the runway.

Junior has some good tips. Try out some narrow paved strips so you "know" you can maintain good directional control on a narrow runway. Measure your take off and landing distances and obstacle clearance, too. Knowing your personal limits for landing and take off distances and compensated for density altitude. Fly over the runway at a perpendicular to judge for wind direction and get a good look at the runway. Try it on a nice day.

Funny, I have that same feeling when i come in over trees, getting as close as I can, to land on a mountain lake, knowing I need to be real close as I have altitude to burn off. I keep wondering how close, and I know I must be 25 plus feet above them but it feels close!

There's going to be a lot of potential for tricky winds in there, if there is ANY wind to speak of. Nevertheless, it looks doable.

Go to a paved, marked runway. Land repeatedly there, ON CENTER LINE, with NO deviations permitted, not even two feet. Don't cheat yourself, be honest.

Once you've got that down, and you can land short, just pay attention to the winds.

Everything but site evaluation in the back country you can and should practice and perfect at a bigger airport.

MTV

Ben, that strip's not as bad as it looks at first (or second!) glance. I've been into Sky Harbor many times, it's not too big a deal. A guy used to base a Grumman Widgeon outa there, so a Skyhawk shouldn't be a problem. It can get real boggy on the west end, though, so it's best to avoid that end in the winter and spring. The usual procedure is to land west,take off east. Landing west, it's not hard to stop by the end of the hangar/shed building on the south side.
You need to get some narrow strip practice,head over to Wes Lupien Field at Oak Harbor (76S)-- it's narrow with quite a grade to the runway (downhill E->W) to boot. Or over to Diamond Point (2WA1?) near Sequim, it's level but maybe even narrower than oak harbor. DP is a private airpark, so don't do a buncha T&G's. Another place to practice narrow strips is the crosswind runway (4/22?) at Skagit (KBVS), the runway markings are a whole lot narrower than the pavement. I think that's so they don't have to maintain as much tarmac.
That tunnel effect with timber and brush can be intimidating, but you just can't let it psych you out. But then again, if you're not comfortable doing something, it's often best to listen to that little voice saying "don't do it...."

Eric

All excellent advice, thanks guys!

The narrowest paved runway that I've landed on is Monroe (W16), just a few miles west of the grass strip posted above...I think it's 35' wide, and 2100' long. I've done quite a few to&l's there lately.

Eric, that Oak Harbor field is 25' wide, according to the airnav profile. That's downright skinny! Pretty much the width of a shoulderless 2 lane highway. I can't seem to find the Sequim air park on airnav.

I learned to fly out of Skagit, so I've had my share of to&l's on 4/22...but psychologically it's not as intimidating because, as you mentioned, the pavement is a lot more extensive than the marked runway itself. One time I helped launch a 182 on floats off of a wheel sled on 4/22, that was quite an adventure!

Anywho, I definitely plan on taking Jr's advice and walking Sky Harbor on foot first to see what I'm getting into. All around good advice.

Everytime I have tried to land there horses were on the runway.

Follow US-2 upriver and you will find Skykomish which is lots of fun.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/S88

Long approach w/ downhill landing to the West or drop over the trees for an uphill landing.

Seems like the best thing to do would be to go in there with a CFI who is familiar with the strip. That way you get a mental hard copy of what the experience is supposed to look like. The whole issue here seems to be that the unfamiliar visual cues throw off your perception. Practicing center line landings on more open strips is fine, but it won't really do much to tell you whether you're approaching that strip correctly. Sixty bucks for some instruction time sounds like a good deal to me.

I used to go into Monroe quite often to visit mom, the kids really enjoyed to view when the fair was going on. Visually, one of the more challenging strips when you first go in.
Diamond Point is a good strip for narrow practice just watch the sink over the bluff landing to the west. It will really get your attention especially on a hot day.

Skykomish looks like fun. Turf is reported as rough though.

Another one I just thought of is Camano Island...I've used it as a checkpoint 100 times but never thought to drop in there and say hi.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/13W

I remember the first time into Camano years ago-- on right downwind for landing north, I notice a row of powerpoles along the road that runs across the south end of the runway. Powerline across the end f the runway? Nah..... but maybe.... so I keep it pretty high until I can see on final that the powerlines go underground on either side of the runway. OK to land... except now I'm too high so I land long.... guess what, Camano's 1700' long but the runway starts pitching downhill pretty good toward the north end. I barely got her down and stopped. The last 100 feet or so on the north must always be in the shade cuz it's mossy, so watch out!
Moral: always thoroughly eyeball a new place to land, even airports!

Eric

Ben-

Good to see you getting after it. I need to come up to WA one of these days for an adventure...skiing or flying.

bio-smear

ravi: well put about the visual cues screwing with me. When trees are that close, they whiz past in your peripheral vision which makes you feel way faster than normal, and probably closer to them than you actually are.

Eric: thanks for the heads up! I'll remember that if/when I give it go.

Zane: definitely, you should come up. You're not that far away! Also, we are skiing throughout the summer, so if you are up for some hiking or touring, let me know. I think we're doing Mt. Adams next weekend if the weather isn't too scuzzy.

To tie two previously mentioned factors together, here is some more food for thought. When operating out of strip that is narrow that will require soft field technique, remember that one of the first things that is going to happen is your nose is going to come up. The result is you no longer have good forward visibility of the narrow strip. The question, and litmus test, becomes "Can I maintain directional control on a 30' wide strip without seeing it?" When you can answer that question with a "yes" everytime, then you are ready.

Minus the horses, it looks like a fun strip. Good luck with it!

That look like a fun strip!

I sometimes (allegedly, that is) land on gravel roads in the rural areas of the state. Many have a power line off to one side, and the road itself is fairly narrow, requiring good directional control. And, the ditches on both sides would be very bad, should I happen to run off the road.

The first off-field landing I did spooked me, as there's no center line or other 'boundary' to use as a reference. I've become pretty calm (but not complacent) about off-field stuff since then.

Landing on small lakes when I got a seaplane rating also helped cure my fear of trees, as you have to practically brush the treetops with the floats to get into and out of some of them.

After your third or fourth landing there, you'll wonder what all the fuss was. That doesn't mean that your concern is unwarranted, though!

Jon B.

Jon B. has a good point. It is easier to land on roads with power lines on both sides rather than only one side.

You have trees on both sides and that should help you stay centered.

Watch the winds, approach speeds and nail your landing spot. It'll be just fine and real fun.

Or, you don't have to be a hero. Take a good CFI with you. Do it on your next bi-annual and it shouldn't cost you any extra cash.

Bill

When operating out of strip that is narrow that will require soft field technique, remember that one of the first things that is going to happen is your nose is going to come up. The result is you no longer have good forward visibility of the narrow strip. The question, and litmus test, becomes "Can I maintain directional control on a 30' wide strip without seeing it?" When you can answer that question with a "yes" everytime, then you are ready.

Actually I find having trees on either side is a big help here. With the nose high you can still easily see the trees on either side and ahead.

I started operating out of a tree lined runway last year, it's intimidating at first. Go in when it's calm the first couple times and Really watch out for cross winds. I nearly got bit this summer by a 10 kt cross wind on a tree lined strip. Was down below the trees, out of the wind and just flaring for landing...when I passed that 150' wide gap in the trees. Wind hit me, ballooned me up and pushed me off centerline. Made for a very exciting couple of seconds. Was pure luck that I still had enough airspeed and altitude to save that one. Needless to say I now make sure to be down well before that gap, or land well past it if there's a cross wind now.

Phil

zero.one.victor wrote:I remember the first time into Camano years ago-- on right downwind for landing north, I notice a row of powerpoles along the road that runs across the south end of the runway. Powerline across the end f the runway? Nah..... but maybe.... so I keep it pretty high until I can see on final that the powerlines go underground on either side of the runway. OK to land... except now I'm too high so I land long.... guess what, Camano's 1700' long but the runway starts pitching downhill pretty good toward the north end. I barely got her down and stopped. The last 100 feet or so on the north must always be in the shade cuz it's mossy, so watch out!
Moral: always thoroughly eyeball a new place to land, even airports!

Eric

The rental 12 from my home airport managed to get itself ran off the end of this runway and into the blackberries last week. Wiped out the nosewheel. Bummer! It's sitting with a block under the front end as of last sunday. FBO owner probably has it trailered back home by now.
I suspect the same scenario as I described earlier was what bit the pilot in the butt.

Eric

Check out Vashon, very similar. landing to the south it feels like you fly between two tall trees. Usually slip after clearing the trees. I have a cubcrafters sport cub and its perfect for these kind of landings. Grass is so forgiving compared to pavement.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/2S1

I soloed on Wax Orchard, a beautiful grass strip. runs up hill to the north, usually land that direction and takeoff to the south (downhill. But if you do land to the south there are tall trees again to clear and then slip down.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/WA69

I am based at Tacoma TIW and have a harder time landing there on the freeway size asphault runway than either one of the above grass strips. Did I mention that I am a student sport pilot with about 80 hours and 15 solo, all tailwheel and loving every minute of it!