As a general rule I spend the money for good tires on everything I use, but my current set of Michelin Aire Tires lasted 250 hours on a Cessna 140. That's over $1.40 per hour of flight on the tires alone, and I even rotated them!

Has anyone used the Specialty Tires or the Condor Tires? My wife is learning to fly, so the tires are going to have a hard life. Safety is paramount, but at 1/3 the cost of the Michelin's they're sure tempting.

Also, who out there actually changes the tubes every time they change the tires? Seems sort of silly to me, but maybe there's a reason for it.

The reason you should change the tubes is that the tubes grow some when they are inflated the first time. They stretch a bit. Take those old, oversize tubes and stick them in new tires, and unless you are VERY careful with them, and maybe even then, you'll be very apt to pinch a tube during inflation, causing yourself some problems.

Buy Goodyears. They wear much better than most tires. I've found that the McCreary tires don't last nearly as long as Goodyears do. Goodyears seem to be more resistant to UV as well, which tends to kill McRearys.

I have no experience with Michelin. Why not buy American?

MTV

140hrs in how many years?

Is there a chance the alignment is off? How did they wear ie; center, both edges, one side only? Does your plane have the typical saggy C140 gear legs, or have they been re-arched in the last few years?

Jason
N22KY

ravi wrote:As a general rule I spend the money for good tires on everything I use, but my current set of Michelin Aire Tires lasted 250 hours on a Cessna 140. That's over $1.40 per hour of flight on the tires alone, and I even rotated them!

Has anyone used the Specialty Tires or the Condor Tires? My wife is learning to fly, so the tires are going to have a hard life. Safety is paramount, but at 1/3 the cost of the Michelin's they're sure tempting.

Also, who out there actually changes the tubes every time they change the tires? Seems sort of silly to me, but maybe there's a reason for it.

Aviation Consumer did a test on tires. The best value for the money is the Monster Retread, 2nd place is the Goodyear Flight Custom 3. I use retreads exclusively on the 182 I used to have and the Bonanza I have now. The Monsters are great if you need a 6.00x6 tire, you won't believe how deep the tread is. I have also used the Aero Trainers, a really good value. Go with something cheap until she's finished. Chances are you won't go back.

Be careful with retreads on a retractable. There is some difference in consistency when it comes to diameter on retreads. If you luck out and get one that's bigger.....first time you fold em, they may stay folded.

MTV

I use McCreary (Specialty) 800 x 6's, they seem to hold up petty well and I (unfortunately) mainly operate on pavement. I like the rounded cross-section of the McCreary Airtracs, the goodyear 800's I've looked at seemed kinda square in cross-section.

Eric

mtv wrote:Be careful with retreads on a retractable. There is some difference in consistency when it comes to diameter on retreads. If you luck out and get one that's bigger.....first time you fold em, they may stay folded.

MTV

Old wives tale. Retreads today are every bit as good as non retreads. They are made to the same standards of size.

I'll second the vote for Goodyear Flight custom III's (3). But not the II's (2). The III's are worth the extra money if you wear out the tread of the tires. If dry rot is the problem then buy the cheapest tires you can find.

On our King Air C90's (big single main tires) the III's wear better then the Michelins.

In Aviation Consumer the III's were the only tires that were serviceable after the "locked brake skid test".

-Todd Giencke

aren't most airliner tires retreads? Hardly seems worth it to buy expensive ones if she's gonna be hard on them. Try the retreads for a while, the ones from Desser with the deep threads. I used em on my old tripacer and they lasted a long time. I only replaced them cause of age cracks.

Almost all of the tires I put on C-130, C-141, C-5, KC-135R while in the Air Force were retreads.

-Todd Giencke

I like to run french tires because they roll backwards so much easier when I'm putting the plane back in the hanger...

Right now dry rot isn't a problem. My worn out Michelin's are not quite one year old, and with my wife flying there will be more hours on the bird this year. The tires do wear faster on the inside edges due to their alignment, but I rotate them at 100 hours.

I've thought of taking off the fenderskirts and putting on 8 inch tires (my wife has already done one "cross country" flight, though she admirably missed all the blue lights), but I'm not sure if that would be a help or a hinderance to her.

I'll try the cheap tires and see how they work. Right now if they lasted 75 hours I'd be money ahead...

Bonanza Man,

Two weeks ago I spent several hours with the Goodyear aviation tire rep chatting about this very subject. Goodyear does NOT recap small general aviation tires. Why? Not because recaps are unsatisfactory, but simply because it costs just about as much to recap a set as it does to produce a new set. That is based on their experience--they used to recap small tires.

He had no beef whatever with using recaps, but his advice was that recaps are all over the place in the amount of rubber they put on the tire. He warned to be VERY careful to buy recaps from a very reputable recapper, and pay careful attention to diameter, particularly on tires that go on a retract. Not my idea, not a wives tale-from the people who make tires.

Note that Goodyear recaps MILLIONS of tires, for the airlines and other jet type airplanes, where the profit margin makes sense for them.

I repeat, this guy said go for recaps if you like, but to ensure that you are getting good quality caps, and that the diameters are consistent with new specs. He noted that there are some real crappy recappers out there.

If you've had good luck with them, you are likely dealing with one of the good ones.

MTV

I think the reason they recommend new tubes is that the tubes "squirm" inside the tire, and become abraided over time.

My two cents- lose the wheel panties, and go for the 800's.

French tires and going backward ...

Eric

mtv wrote:Bonanza Man,

Two weeks ago I spent several hours with the Goodyear aviation tire rep chatting about this very subject. Goodyear does NOT recap small general aviation tires. Why? Not because recaps are unsatisfactory, but simply because it costs just about as much to recap a set as it does to produce a new set. That is based on their experience--they used to recap small tires.

He had no beef whatever with using recaps, but his advice was that recaps are all over the place in the amount of rubber they put on the tire. He warned to be VERY careful to buy recaps from a very reputable recapper, and pay careful attention to diameter, particularly on tires that go on a retract. Not my idea, not a wives tale-from the people who make tires.

Note that Goodyear recaps MILLIONS of tires, for the airlines and other jet type airplanes, where the profit margin makes sense for them.

I repeat, this guy said go for recaps if you like, but to ensure that you are getting good quality caps, and that the diameters are consistent with new specs. He noted that there are some real crappy recappers out there.

If you've had good luck with them, you are likely dealing with one of the good ones.

MTV

I know Goodyear doesn't recap tires, but the nice thing is is that most recaps are Goodyear carcasses. What would be a large error when it comes to variances in diameter for a tire that is supposed to be the same size? A quarter inch? One inch? I'd be very suprised if you could find me two tires, from any recapper or tire manufacturer, that were a quarter inch or more different in diameter. But even if it was a full inch, no way in hell that happens, but let's say it did. That means I'd have to have less than a half inch of clearance as the wheel goes up on a normal size tire. You have to have that much anyways for normal hot/cold operations, differenes in strut compression, etc. I don't have any idea how many recappers there are out there, no doubt there are bad ones, like anything else we buy. I've only ever bought from Desser.

I've seen brand NEW Brand X tires in size 8.50 by 6.00 that were an inch difference in diameter. Put a set of those on your tailwheel airplane, and you'll be wondering why the landings are wierd all of a sudden. That happened to me in a C185. It turns out that's pretty common with certain manufacturers tires. We measured a bunch, and they were all over the place. These were brand new, never used tires.

The points you make with retracts supports the notion that you want them consistent in size--you noted there are differences in temperature, strut extension, etc, and those are all true. So, the airframe manufacturer builds in some space. But if you get a tire that's bigger than spec to start, AND a faulty strut, AND a hot day, AND overinflation.....I think that was th Goodyear man's point.

Again, Goodyear DOES recap tires, just not the small ones for economic reasons.

MTV

ravi wrote:As a general rule I spend the money for good tires on everything I use

This is sound thinking, Semi s , Airliners, and Transport aircraft all have a bazillion tires on the ground... you have 2 and a half and need them ALL to work on EVERY landing as a sidenote, 2 tires from any of the aforementioned wiegh in at almost the same as your entire plane
no wonder they last so long!

jgerard wrote:140hrs in how many years?

Is there a chance the alignment is off? How did they wear ie; center, both edges, one side only? Does your plane have the typical saggy C140 gear legs, or have they been re-arched in the last few years?

I would look at these to save $$$, You did actually say 250, but I would expect WAYYYY longer, and even get way longer on Brand "BW"

Bonanza Man wrote:Go with something cheap until she's finished.

To each is own.... If it were my wife or kids, I would say cheap out AFTER she can get it on the ground nice and smoothly...

I have McCrearys for the same reason Z1V stated.... the rounded profile
Just switched from re-caps on a work cub to these, and after flying it some the boss says we will be switching the Bird Dog over as well...

2 and "a half" cents....
Rob

Rob wrote:Semi s , Airliners, and Transport aircraft all have a bazillion tires on the ground... you have 2 and a half and need them ALL to work on EVERY landing

********************************************************************************
** Report created 4/30/2007 Record 18 **
********************************************************************************

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 3613M Make/Model: PA12 Description: PA-12 Super Cruiser
Date: 04/29/2007 Time: 2100

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Substantial

LOCATION
City: DELTA JUNCTION State: AK Country: US

DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, RIGHT TIRE WENT FLAT, AND NOSED OVER ONTO ITS BACK,
DELTA JUNCTION, AK

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: NOT REPORTED

OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Landing Operation: OTHER

Departed: DELTA JUNCTION, AK Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: Flt Plan: Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:

FAA FSDO: FAIRBANKS, AK (AL01) Entry date: 04/30/2007

BTW.... a little disclaimer for any whom might have "soft feelers" none of my babble is an attack of anyone elses opinion, just another viewpoint