Recently I've purchased a 182 and I'm thinking of taking it to the Palm Springs area (Bermuda Dunes Airport - KUDD) this spring. I live in Winnipeg (CYWG) and have looked at google earth for a preliminary route. I have no mountain flying experience, VFR and also have no experience with oxygen. My thought was to fly just west of Albuquerque, NM and then head direct to Palm Springs as the mountains look lower that way. I'd prefer as direct as possible.

Any suggestions? Should i look into getting oxygen for the aircraft?

garth

I'll tag along if you want as long as i can wear my habs jersey!

No oxygen, mountains or turbocharger required at all, if you are willing to simply make a little dog-leg in your course. Fly down into the US southbound, staying east of the Rocky Mountains and the high ground. Make your way south and west through the Dakotas, Kansas, and into Clovis New Mexico. Then fly south to Carlsbad New Mexico. Continue south and turn right at Interstate Highway 10, follow that into El Paso TX, then through southern New Mexico, Arizona, and into California. Interstate 10 passes about a mile away from KUDD airport. As you get near Bermuda Dunes there will be a very pretty 10,000 foot mountain right in front of you (Mt. San Jacinto), but you will not have to get close to it, over, under or around it unless you want to go all the way into Los Angeles.

This detour will probably cost you a few hundred miles extra compared to a straight line. But the added benefit of this method is safety... you stay closer to roads and populated areas, flat ground, stay out of more icing or bad weather, etc. Being too close to the downwind side of a major mountain range (like the Rockies) in strong winter/spring winds can be a dangerous situation because of lee wave and rotor. If you choose the Albuquerque route, be advised that you might want to stay east of the mountains until you get to Interstate 40, then follow 40 westbound. I would not recommend a straight line through the desert from ALBQ to UDD, it's some pretty desolate country, lots of small mountains, and not much in the way of help if you have to land somewhere between ALBQ and PHX.

Of course you can fly southwest to Laramie Wyoming and follow Interstate 80 through the hills to Salt Lake City, which is not that awful as far as mountains, but if mountains are something you don't like then it may not be the best way..

I flew from Cheyenne, WY to central California in my 170 following I-80 for the most part and the terrain isn't too bad at all. You should be fine in your 182. If the weather looks bad though then keep the I-40 route as your plan B.

Damn... Flying up in the rocks is the best, and most fun, part of the trip.

Gump

It's not that I'm necessarily afraid of flying in the mountains as much as I've never done it and wouldnt want to tackle it without some training.

Some of the routes you guys propose are look ok - is it normal to generally follow roads when your in mountainous terrain?

garth

gear wrote:It's not that I'm necessarily afraid of flying in the mountains as much as I've never done it and wouldnt want to tackle it without some training.

Some of the routes you guys propose are look ok - is it normal to generally follow roads when your in mountainous terrain?

garth

Now there are quite a few people here with eleventy-seven thousand hours more mountain flying experience than I have, but in general I believe it is safe to say that being within sight or walking distance of a road is a big advantage in otherwise remote areas. It stacks the odds in your favor IMHO, with no downside.

Being able to glide down and land on or near a road (after an engine or mechanical problem) means you have a higher chance of someone being there to help if you need it. The road is how your airplane will be recovered and taken back someplace where it can be fixed. The road is how your new cylinder or fuel-filled Jerry cans will get to your airplane. The road is how you will get a ride out of there if something makes you leave the airplane behind. The road is a very comforting visual backup to verify where you are, with or without a working GPS. Also, the biggest road is usually the lowest altitude you can get through the terrain.

It's not that you can't fly in mountains where there are no roads... I'm sure lots of the people here do it all the time. But it's that being near a road when it is possible adds another level of safety and chance for survival compared to no road.

Going to Rock Springs and turning towards Ogden has been a good way to go- pretty gentle terrain, and roads all the way through.

The southern route described would completely avoid the rocks, but is a whole lot of boring. Utah is a lot more fun.

No O2 required for either one.

Garth: After where you have been flying around Canada, this trip should be pretty comfortable. I spent the night in Indio a week ago yesterday and landed at Bermuda Dunes. $10 per night with a $5 landing fee. Laziest employees I have encountered for quite awhile. Rented a car from Hertz before getting there online and had it dropped at the airport, $69 per day. Avgas was about $6.30 (can't remember exactly). Had a very good Italian dinner on Hwy 111, Mario's.

Another question, why Palm Springs?? E=mail me, Later, FF

How about this route??

Winnipeg to Colorado Springs (KCOS), down to TAOS (TAS) VOR, Gallup, NM (KGUP), then to Bermuda Dunes.

Pretty much keeps you east of the Rookies then over the smaller Mts of NM and AZ.

Follow the roads. They generally take the lowest route through the mountains.

Hey Garth, I just looked at the direct route from Winnipeg to Bermuda Dunes. If you go on a NICE day you can zig zag around the high peaks and never go over 12K My brain is ok at 12K I don't use O2.

Don't for get to stop at Leadville, Colorado KLXV the highest GA airport in North America 9927MSL 6400 long runway

If I had O2 I would use it especially if it is a hot day. Little nagging head ache sometimes.

Density altitude affects your brain as well as your plane.

Direct is 1283NM. Winnipeg-Las Vegas NM-Santa Fe-Bermuda Dunes is 1483NM That keeps you out of the big mountains.

On a side note, I go to Bermuda Dunes 2-4 times a year. Best gas prices down there is Big Bear Lake or Banning. Bermuda Dunes is stupid expensive.

Flying over the rock pile is beautiful!

Good day...Rob

58 skylane and oregonmaule's routes are pretty similar and i just looked at them with google earth and they look like there would be quite a bit to see along the way. My wife is into "rock hounding" - she looks for neat rocks, cuts and polishes them, and makes jewelry out of them - looks like this would make the trip even enjoyable for her

gear wrote:58 skylane and oregonmaule's routes are pretty similar and i just looked at them with google earth and they look like there would be quite a bit to see along the way. My wife is into "rock hounding" - she looks for neat rocks, cuts and polishes them, and makes jewelry out of them - looks like this would make the trip even enjoyable for her

If your wife likes rocks, you need to stop at Quartzsite Arizona on the way, during the Winter it's one of the biggest rockhound/gemshows in the world, and yes, there are two strips to land at that are within walking distance of all the action. It's only 25 miles East of the California border right on I-10.

Hafast wrote:

gear wrote:58 skylane and oregonmaule's routes are pretty similar and i just looked at them with google earth and they look like there would be quite a bit to see along the way. My wife is into "rock hounding" - she looks for neat rocks, cuts and polishes them, and makes jewelry out of them - looks like this would make the trip even enjoyable for her

If your wife likes rocks, you need to stop at Quartzsite Arizona on the way, during the Winter it's one of the biggest rockhound/gemshows in the world, and yes, there are two strips to land at that are within walking distance of all the action. It's only 25 miles East of the California border right on I-10.

I'll second that!

And on the route. Looks like from Denver/CO Springs, there's some pretty good route options as far as scenery. If you stay to the northern part of NM or lower part of CO, a trip thru Monument Valley would be pretty epic! Then I think it would be very awesome to jump up to the Colorado River and follow that all the way to Bullhead City or maybe even down to Huvasu. Then back over to Bermuda Dunes. Depends how much time you'll have and what the Wx is doing.

Both Hayden Pass (10,722ft) and LaVeta pass (9,413ft) are good Colorado mountain passes. The winds and weather are pretty predictable, and once you're in the San Luis Valley you can cut through northern NM. I take these passes all the time and 12.5K is a pretty good crossing altitude. This time of year the winds can really kick up, and I would say steer clear of the CO Rockies if the winds at altitude are above 30kts as you might get your teeth kicked in and scare your wife.

Shoot me a PM if you need more info and have a great adventure!

Been looking at the routing through NM and some google earth pictures - the scenery is out of this world.

garth

If your in the area. I think it would be cool to fly circles around Four Corners No where else can you fly through 4 states in less than a couple of minutes

Have done the Minnesota to Bermuda Dunes deal some winters ago. It was really pretty easy and no need to get much above 8K. Stayed east of the mountains and stopped in Las Vegas, NM but then got stuck in Santa Rosa, NM during a snow storm. Other than that it was no problem. Went west on I-40 through Albuquerque to Gallup to Winslow to Prescott to Bermuda Dunes. But if you can get gas anywhere else do! Like Rob says, fuel is "stupid expensive" there.

Brad

Coming back was more interesting, the weather on the east side of the Rockies is usually worse than the desert where you can see a million miles and stay clear of any storms.

My trip to Palm Springs is about two weeks away. I've decided on my route - CYAV (St. Andrews, just north of Winnipeg) - KFAR (Fargo, ND - customs) - KGLD (Goodland, KS)- KDHT (Dalhart, TX) - KINW (Winslow, AZ) - KTRM (Jacqueline Cochran - palm springs area). During the leg from Winslow to Palm Springs, i essentially pass right over Love Field (KPRC) just north of Prescott, AZ. According to the charts, there is extensive IRF training 10,000 and below in this area, as well as parachuting, hang gliding and gliders in the vicinity.

Can anyone tell me how busy that area is? Should i try and avoid, or just keep a good watch out and keep in touch with the tower there? I'm hoping to be 10,000 + ASL when i cross there, but will have to start my decent right after the field to get below 7000' for the BAGDAD MOA 25 miles west of the airport.

Any other observations / comments on my route would also be appreciated.

thx.

garth