I'm going to be buying some larger tires for my S6. Matco was making a big deal about some tires they sell that are tubeless and they seemed to think I'd be impressed by that. I've always had tubes in my tires. Are there any benefits to tubeless tires? Why would I want them?

No valve stem to shear off
No worries about pinched tubes
Can run LOW pressures without worry of either of the above.

Alaskan Bushwheels are also tubeless. Courierguy has a pic around here somewhere, where he was on a side hill with an under inflated bushwheel and it was literally doubled over on itself and never went flat or pinched itself. I've seen it happen on a scout too and no damage to the tire. 31" ABW's.

I think wheels used with a tubeless setup are also unique. They have an O-ring or seal or something between the halves, because they seal against the rim like a car tire. Save your money for some 29" Airstreaks, which are their own self-contained unit tubless unit that don't rely on a seal.

Hey Scott - I ran the matcos tubeless with 26" Goodyears, and it worked well. I could lower them down to about 5-6psi and they would slip a bit on the rim, and as others said, won't shear the valve stem. They would leak a bit over time, so you have to check em (like over weeks, not short periods).

But I would agree with Z, if you can hold on....get airstreaks. The 26" will do for 95% of even the rough stuff, and will be less wear/tear on your spring gear.

I also know that folks have differing views on the goodyears, but I think if you have to do a lot of pavement taxi/lanidngs, they are actually a pretty useful compromise. Floation is good for a lot of the rough CA pastures we land in. They are definitely not airstreaks, but I think they were a lot better than 800's and they wear like iron.

I am running my tires tubeless now because of George's recommendation. I have put air in my tires exactly once in the past 6 months and can't think of a reason to ever buy tunes again. The magical conversion kit is just one big o ring for the split in the wheels, and a stand alone valve stem that you can buy for .99 at napa. You may even save an ounce or two without a tube. Works on any tire size, but I have 26" goodyears.

silflexer wrote:I am running my tires tubeless now because of George's recommendation. I have put air in my tires exactly once in the past 6 months and can't think of a reason to ever buy tunes again. The magical conversion kit is just one big o ring for the split in the wheels, and a stand alone valve stem that you can buy for .99 at napa. You may even save an ounce or two without a tube. Works on any tire size, but I have 26" goodyears.

Is this on a Luscombe? What wheels? I've thought about buying grove tubeless wheels so I could run GY 26 tires without tubes if I want to.

Grove 6 inch are not legal on certified A/C.

Matco wheels aren't either.

MTV

svanarts wrote:I'm going to be buying some larger tires for my S6. Matco was making a big deal about some tires they sell that are tubeless and they seemed to think I'd be impressed by that. I've always had tubes in my tires. Are there any benefits to tubeless tires? Why would I want them?

How about going tubeless with Matco's help, AND saving up for some Airstreaks?

I had a tube experience early this winter, after installing the 6:00 tires I need to run with the wheel skis. I aired them up to what seemed plenty, (my two tire gauges were both in town in different rigs, all I had in the hangar was the special low psi gauge, 15 psi max, for the Airstreaks), so I just eyeballed it. Several flights later, when pushing the plane out of the hangar after a pre flight, it seemed to be hard to move. I was going over some chunks of ice and didn't think much of it. After a runup I flicked the switches that move the skis into place, and waited the usual 30 seconds or so for that to happen. About halfway through the wait, I realized my breakfast plans were going to be local and driven to and not flown to. I had a almost flat tire, I could see the valve stem exiting the wheel at an extreme angle, and immediately knew that the tube had spun a little, enough to traumatize the stem and cause a slow leak.

The reason I missed it on my pre flight was that the 75% of the tire I could see, above the twin raised ridges of the skis, looked good: were perfectly round. It was only the unseen very bottom part of the tire that was flat Yeah yeah, pretty funny and an old joke, but the good thing is I now pre-flight my tires top AND bottom when on the skis, and keep about 30 lbs in those 6:00's. In my defense, no max/min air pressure is on the sidewall, and after the very low psi I run in the Airstreaks, the (probably) 20 psi or so I had just wasn't enough, especially with my pretty good brakes when on small tires, though it seemed like plenty in comparison. Having NO tubes is always better I'd say.

Okay, sounds like tubeless is the way to go. I know it's already a bear to get the tires I have off the wheel. They make a VERY good seal. Yeah the guy from Matco said the tubeless "kit" was a cheap gasket and they'd throw that in for free if I bought the tire from them. Such a deal.

You'll save several pounds by eliminating the tubes. The Matco O ring kit that seals the two rim halves costs $2.00. Theses absolutely work especially if you get some No Tubes Sealant from ABW. Paint all mating surfaces with that stuff using a decent size artist paint brush, then add several ounces inside the tire. Somewhere on the ABW website they tell you how much...about 4 ounces per tire I think. Then roll the tire every which way to make sure the interior is coated. They will not leak air and you will also have the added benefit of your tire instantly sealing should you roll over something sharp. Also No Tubes a Sealant does not freeze. I did exactly this with some Goodyear 26 x 10 tires that I bought from Emmet...it works. This is a no brainier. Go for it.

Stan's No Tubes sealant can be had at all your local bicycle shops - no need to have it shipped from Alaska.

1 more benefit of tubeless - is pretty easy field repairs of punctures without removing the tire from the rim

Wow! Airstreaks are out of the equation! Can't afford those bad boys. MAYBE Goodyears. I'll have to save up for those.

mtv wrote:Grove 6 inch are not legal on certified A/C.

Matco wheels aren't either.

MTV

Unless you hire a DER. If the luscombe doesn't sell I'll be installing grove 6" wheels and have approval for just about any tire I could want. Already have most of the details worked out with a DER.

If this "No Tubes Sealant" you guys speak of is Stan's No Tubes Sealant here's some important info for you:

I've been using Stans No Tubes Sealant for about 5 years on my mountain bike and road bike. No Tubes Sealant is great stuff and very effective at sealing puncture in the tread of the tire (it doesn't work for s#!t sealing a sidewall puncture).

Important: No Tubes dries out over time and needs to be reapplied into the tire about every 4 months (this is the timeline in a bike tire here in Arizona). I assume it will dry out the same in an aircraft tire. No Tubes is a latex type solution dissolved into a solvent (I think its water based). Over time the solvent dries up and you're left with a solid hunk of latex like material rolling in side your tire. When dried up it won't seal anything. If you use it, check your No Tubes every few months, remove the latex ball, an reapply No Tubes sealant as necessary. In my opinion, it would be more hassle than its worth in an aircraft, unless you are really operating in a place with lots of cactus and thorns.

More info here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/whe ... 80178.html

whee wrote:

mtv wrote:Grove 6 inch are not legal on certified A/C.

Matco wheels aren't either.

MTV

Unless you hire a DER. If the luscombe doesn't sell I'll be installing grove 6" wheels and have approval for just about any tire I could want. Already have most of the details worked out with a DER.

Last time I spoke with the folks at Grove, they were well into the STC process for their 6 inch wheels/brakes....and their 4 inch are stc'd, so they know that process. It would be great to have a little competition out there for Clevelands.

I believe that Grove makes good stuff, in any case.

MTV

4Whitey - Great information on the sealant - Thanks!

You won't be able to remove a ball of latex from inside an ABW. I've used Stan's in Mtn bike tires for many years now as well. I admit I may not be a representative sample size and I don't frequent the Mtn bike forums, but I've never had a ball inside a tubeless tire. When mine dries, it results in a powdery substance. The amount of application is key. I would think a dried ball could result from too much rather than not enough. I'd also rely on ABW guidance for using sealant rather than mountain biker local knowledge.

YMMV.

I like that green Slime but never tried it in an ABW.

My post was just a PSA intended to save a fellow BCPer from getting an unexpected flat because they were unaware the sealant dries out. Bike tires are obviously different from aircraft tires, but they are similar in many ways as well. The dried ball of Stan's after 4 months is a common occurrence for me and other bikers as you'll see if you read on MTBR, the forum I posted or else where on the web.

http://www.notubes.com/Stans-Tire-Seala ... t-P51.aspx

"Stan’s Tire Sealant will stay liquid in a mountain bike tire with a thin casing for two to seven months on average. Riding in arid climates or storing the bike in a hot area will require more frequent monitoring of sealant levels."

This is for bike tires, I have no idea how long the stuff lasts in aircraft tires. "Stan's" is GREAT stuff, but just be aware of it's limitations.

soyAnarchisto wrote:I'd also rely on ABW guidance for using sealant rather than mountain biker local knowledge.

Stan's No Tubes is the sealer that ABW recommends and sells. I've been using it in my last two planes with 31s and 35s and it works great. I do have to add more sealer occasionally as it dries over time.