agree with the power thing. i fly a 90hp champ with stall kit. i know my plane inside and out and can get in and out of places a 180 cub with rookie pilot canot. practice on sand bars and beaches and get out and pace off your tracks and get a feel for what you can do
kevin

Wow, this thread has exploded on me over the last few hours while I've been unplugged from the matrix.

I've always known in "theory" that the airplane can do it. It's just comforting to hear from all of you who are out there actually doing it.

zero.one.victor wrote:Matt, were you part of the Prescott 140 Air Force that Budd Davidson has written about in the past? Sounded like a fun bunch down there....Eric

I was one of the privileged few to get to work (play) with those guys. Allen (the owner) made it a great place to work, learn, and have fun. It's too bad that "Tailwheels and More" isn't still around today. Rumor has it, it may be resurrected again. Let's hope.

Thanks again to everyone for your input. Hope to see you out there in 08.

skybobb wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEF-lBrDweA

...I wasn't to proud of this landing. I didn't go far enough on my down wind. It is actually better to go down to a wide spot a few miles below the strip turn around and come back up so you can see the strip.
...Bob

As I remember, there's a little sink on the approach end of Big Creek. Given that, it's not such a bad idea to give it a little more clearance & slip it in a bit, if you need to get back down, after you're outta the reach of those big conifers below you!
Remember, go light, no wind, and "tied down by 10", and yes, do get some mtn flying instruction - the things you learn there, will be with you the rest of your (long) life - and very well worth it!

Also, it doesn't hurt to go on the buddy system, in the wilderness. Two or three planes, with one person only, in each can make things safer, and more fun - as long as you don't allow anyone to push you for any reason.

Have fun; it's some of the best flying you'll ever do.

Berk, flying a 145 hp, '59, C-172

Cranial displacement, yeah buddy!

someone mentioned Chamberlain Basin strip. If you are going into that strip this video I have might help. This was my first time into Chamberlain Basin and I made a left hand pattern to land back to the west on 25. In talking with some other back country pilots they informed me that a right hand pattern works best for 25. I can see that is true after landing the way I did. I made it ok but you get down in the tree tops fairly close. Bob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8BtHWfDemY

Andy,

Good post.

CAVU: I spent 30 years flying in several parts of Alaska. I started out flying somewhat underpowered airplanes in those places. Now, mind you, density altitude isn't always an issue there, and that's the primary difference in operating in the Idaho backcountry.

I lost a lot of friends in Alaska aviation, pushing. If you are visiting the Idaho backcountry, why would you feel the need to push?

I remember meeting four gents in Fairbanks at the air camper park on airport. One had arrived in a Husky. The other three had arrived in a Cessna 150 and a Cessna 140, if I recall. The weather was absolute crap.

The Husky guy proceeded to tell everyone how he'd come up the Inside Passage (virtually all over water in a wheel plane) under ceilings of 400 to 800 feet, and visibilities down to 3 miles in places. He was a low time "superhero".

The other three guys were quiet. The next day, the weather was still crap, and the Husky was gone. I chatted with the other three. Turns out they were all airline captains. I asked them if they were heading out soon. Their response: "We're on vacation, why would we want to fly in that kind of weather?". Perfect answer, and two days later I waved to them as they taxied out for departure.

Same applies EVERYWHERE. As I recently told a student who has good physical flying skills but is lazy when it comes to the bookwork:

Flying is just as much about using your head as it is about using your physical skills, and don't ever forget that.

The air taxi guys flying the Idaho backcountry had somewhere they were EXPECTED to be. That is a setup to get you in trouble, believe me--I played that game for many years. It is very easy to get in a little too deep, because somebody expects you to do it, and you've been there many times before.

Use your knowledge of the airplane's performance, and performance includes, as one poster noted, a knowledge of how to turn around in a canyon, and good judgement. Stick your toe in their in perfect conditions.

If you can't afford to sit and wait it out, DON'T GO.

I repeat, flying the mountains is not rocket science. It has traps, however. Don't be dumb.

MTV

One more point here, regarding accident statistics:

I would respectfully point out that dozens of pilots lose control of their aircraft turning downwind to base or base to final at airports in absolutely flat country. It does not require mountainous terrain to demonstrate incompetence.

Unfortunately, the accidents which occur at places like Johnson Creek seem to get more attention.

It is just physics.

MTV

Unfortuneatly a lot of these accidents are caused by pilots getting caught by density altitude. As someone here already mentioned in and down or in and out by 10:00 AM. Density Altitude is a little like a sharp curve in a road. By that I mean there doesn't have to be a policeman there to catch you if you try to take the curve too fast you will not make it. The same with DA It catches flat landers and others as well. You can tell your trusty aircraft that it is only 5800 feet. However it knows the DA could be 8000 or 9000 feet. Think of the things that need air on take off. The engine, the wings and the prop. It is easy to see why DA effects flight like it does. OK I'll get off of my soap box. I just hate to read of back country accidents. Bob

Finally decided to jump in here, usually content with just reading about everybodys adventures. What a great bunch of interesting people. I flew my 85 HP Cessna 120 to Idaho last summer and boy did I have a great time, landed at Garden Valley, Johnson Creek, Stanley, Chamberlain, Smith Prairie. Did not land at a few that just made me nervous, mabe another day. A downhill departure is sure nice for my comfort level when there are trees to clear.
I personally enjoy the challenge of flying the mountains of the West with a low powered plane. But sometimes I sure wish the wife would buy me that 200HP Husky
Dale
N2589N

Lizard wrote:...sometimes I sure wish the wife would buy me that 200HP Husky Dale N2589N

Ahhh, the fine machine would be nice. Pour in the power, then pop up outta the tight spots.
*But* it sure is nice to be able to just sip fuel in the mid-single digits for all the rest of those flying hours. I'll stick to the old underpowered beast, and just pick my travel time when the air's thick & free of onerous down-drafts.
Hey, don't forget to check out the hot springs up on the hill when you get to Johnson Creek.
Enjoy, Berk

Well I guess I'll weigh in here for my two cents. I recently sold my PA 22 160 for a Maule M4 210 C and I can't wait to get back to the fly fishing up there. I flew the tripacer to Cayuse, Shearer, Indian, Thomas, Upper loon, Big, Cabin, Warren, Chamberlain, Moose, Garden Valley, Warm and several other creeks I can't quite remember right now. The short wingers are great back country airplanes and I must say Taking the right precautions and knowing your airplanes limits is the most important thing in flying up there. I know some of the locals up in Idaho take a dim view of us lower california pilots but a few of us take our flying seriously and practice and do short and dirty back country strips here too. I bought the Maule from a guy in Good thunder Minnisota specifically cause I go to Johnson Creek and fly the back country every summer for about two weeks. I use Imesons rule for short strips which is, find the halfway point of the runway and if you reach 71% of your flying speed, (I use 75%) that is the speed at which your aircraft will leave the ground, at the half way mark your airplane will get off the ground before the end of the strip. That doesn't take into account any trees at the end of the runway. In other words if your plane will fly at 50 if you reach 40 at the mid point you will get off. Headed for JC last week in June or there abouts. Hope to see some of you guys there Maule 9810M Iceman

Where do you fly to down in SoCal, Iceman? I used to live in LA in my last life but unfortunately I didn't aviate then. But it seems like there oughta be some good places to go, in the deserts (both high and low) and desert hills, as well as the bigger mountains like the Sierra's.

Eric

Eric, Most of the places we visit here are very old dirt strips and a few dry lakebeds out by Borego desert. Most pilots don't even know about most of them and wouldn't even think of landing there. There is one in east San diego county called smugglers cove,(not smugglers gulch) It is downstream from Lake Morena and looks like a dirt road but I'm told it was once a forestry strip. It is in a canyon and the approach is much the same as many Idah0 strips. Fly down the canyon and fly between two oak trees, we call the goal posts, and set down as close to the approach end as possible. Takeoff is westerly over a reservoir and climb out is over water. Another we call Pendle because of its proximity to Pendleton Marine corps base is about 800 Ft long and is most times occupied by cattle. When its not the approach is almost exactly like big creek in that your down wind is behind a hill and you have to make a sharp left to short final just getting wings level before flare. Hitting your spot is crucial here and it is a great tune up for idaho. Another is Half Hill which is a huge dry lakebed in the anza borego desert. The blue inn is another tricky one with a small restaurant to eat breakfast or lunch. Way too rough for the average tri gear although I took the tripacer in there many times. There are a couple of others we don't have names for and I haven't gone to them as yet which were just to rough for the nose gear. I'm still learning the Maules idiosyncrasies after almost a year at this point and will be ready for Idaho by June. It flies almost the same as the tripacer but Landing and ground ops are another world. I pretty much have it down now and am concentrating on slow flight and spot landings and what we call the Idaho takeoff. (Full throttle to 45 or 50 and yank full flaps and your off). Hope to see you there. Iceman

By the way Matt, at the risk of getting too wordy here I have a flying buddy who I go to Idaho with who has been to almost every strip in the Hanselman book except Dewey Moore and Mile high and a few others in h is 135 HP pacer. You really have to know your planes limitations as well as yours. Another thing you might consider is a climb prop. I had two props for my tripacer. A 60 inch cruise prop for home and a 53 inch climb prop for Idaho. THe 53 was a bit flat but it gave me 2800 RPM on takeoff. Now a lot of guys are cringing here but I used full power to get off the ground and throttled back to 2500 after safely in the air. I also had VG's and droop tips on the tripacer. With all my camping gear which weighed 165pounds I left for home from Johnson Creek in the early morning and was off the ground before the first outhouse which I think is about the first quarter of the runway. Here's another thought. A couple of friends of mine shipped all their gear to Johnson Creek and Gene and Cody put the boxes in the Bunkhouses for them till they arrived. It was a bit expensive but they wanted to bring a lot of stuff for some reason. You don't need to bring a lot of food. Just the first two nights. They have a supermarket in Mccall. I agree with the other guys about the mountains. Planes don't know its the mountains. Practice and be very conservative in your flying up there and you will love it.

Iceman, my folks live in Fallbrook and a good buddy in Lemon Grove, in between visiting them in the past I have prowled around Manzanita,Lake Cuyamaca,Aguanga,Pala,Pauma Valley,etc. Nice country, but way different from where I live now (western Washington). I kinda daydream about having a getaway place (preferably adjoining an airstrip) in the SoCal deserty country after I retire-- winter down there, and summer here.
It looks like there's alot of military airspace east of you. In between the MOA's and the restricted areas, the whole area between Salton Sea, Interstate 8, to out close to Yuma seems blanketed. Are all or most of those usually active?

Eric

Hi Eric, No we don't have much problem with the MOA areas The biggest one is over the salton Sea and it is there for the blue angels. It's where they practice in the off season. There is a private strip, Paved, called Borego air ranch in Borego. THere are several homes at Borego air ranch and the desert is usually pretty nice year round except in late summer. You hit more restricted space east of the Colorado on the way to Phoenix, but if going to Phoenix it's a straight shot east and you are over freeway all the way and restricted areas are to your North. We go to Chiriaco Summit several times a year for breakfast, and hit a dirt strip or two on the way back. Also a small cafe called The Blue Inn is just east of Ocotillo. It's not on the sectional but the owner thought he would help us pilots out by "Paving the dirt" Well he put a bunch of pulled up asphalt out there and flattened it with something and figured it's paved now. Actually it was a lot better as dirt cause now it's like a roller coaster. Borego air ranch has lots for sale and maybe even a house or two. It's not like your high roller bazillion dollar homes or anything but they are nice and the folks there are all pilots. Iceman

iceman wrote:I had two props for my tripacer. A 60 inch cruise prop for home and a 53 inch climb prop for Idaho.

I've been considering the same thing. It will make it a long flight to get out there but it will be worth any extra climb performance. Time to start shopping.

Matt

I've been considering the same thing. It will make it a long flight to get out there but it will be worth any extra climb performance. Time to start shopping.

Matt

Ship the climb prop to Jerome and swap when you get here! I'll store it for you and there's an A&P to sign it off.

Rocky

Ship the climb prop to Jerome and swap when you get here! I'll store it for you and there's an A&P to sign it off.
Rocky

You can read my mind. I was thinking about that too. I might even be able to convince one of my friends to haul it for me along with all of my other stuff. I think I'll also need to carry a revised W&B for the airplane with that new prop on it too, just to keep the feds happy. Now all I need is a climb prop.
-Matt

Shamu, I PMed you.

Dane