I took a friend flying yesterday, and we were just leisurely flying about 1,000 AGL here in the Willamette Valley, en route to the river for a scenic river-following flight. I spotted some traffic at our 3 o'clock and about 3 miles, what looked like a Cessna inbound for the nearby McMinnville airport. I figure he would just pass behind us with literally miles of separation on his heading.

But instead, it seemed more and more he was on an intercept course. We had arrived at the river and turned downstream, and all the while I was keeping my eye on this guy. He was closing in and I was expecting him to go on by, and I didn't want someone behind us, especially a faster aircraft, so I initiated a right 360 thinking we'd just give him time and come around after a minutes or 2.

The aircraft instead began turning with us, on our 6, steadily closing the gap. At this point they were about 300 feet away, such that I could clearly read their 12" N#. They had pulled alongside us. I tried to raise them on the 2 nearby CTAF frequencies, and got nothing, though in hindsight I should have tried fingers or 122.75 or some other popular air-to-air freq.

He inched closer to probably 250 feet and I turned to the right yet again to increase distance. He finally rocked his wings and maintained his course while we came about and headed the opposite, but original course.

While I love flying close to my buddies that I trust, I'm not wild about being approached by an unknown aircraft that I can't communicate with on the radio. Isn't there a reg related to formation flying, in that it must be pre-planned and agreed upon? I don't like the idea of relinquishing control of the situation knowing some guy is tight on my 6 and in my blind spot either. Not cool in my opinion to do that do an aircraft you don't know, outside the conventions of a traffic pattern.

Thoughts? Am I a big pussy (in this particular context?) Missing out on a new way to make friends?

pretty sure both aircraft must agree BEFORE the flight to fly in formation. I would be looking up the N number and contacting the owner of the plane.

FAR 91.111


§ 91.111 Operating near other aircraft.
(a) No person may operate an aircraft so close to another aircraft as to create a collision hazard.
(b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except by arrangement with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the formation.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for hire, in formation flight.


If you got his N number, I'd be tempted to look him up and let him know.

Unfortunately, in-situ I was tuning in various frequencies and eyeing the aircraft, but the N# didn't stick.

$00.02

FARs may have been broken in the described incident by the unknown aircraft. Certainly hazardous regardless.

Fill a "NASA form" ASRS online now:

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.htm

He may be doing it to others.

While I agree with your assessment that it should not have happened, give it a day or two and see if someone you know touches base regarding it. Seems pretty odd that an unknown aircraft would trust getting that close to another without some knowledge of the pilot.

Might be premature to fill out a NASA form.

pb

smoothwaterman wrote:While I agree with your assessment that it should not have happened, give it a day or two and see if someone you know touches base regarding it. Seems pretty odd that an unknown aircraft would trust getting that close to another without some knowledge of the pilot.

Might be premature to fill out a NASA form.

pb

I fly a distinct rental aircraft that sees a lot of action, of which I'm only a small percentage.

There's no justification for "forming up" on another plane without at least reaching them on the radio first.

I propose a sticker for the tail that reads:

"If you can read this, then you should also be able to read FAR 91.111"

.
zzz wrote
I spotted some traffic at our 3 o'clock and about 3 miles, what looked like a Cessna

... I am just fantasizing of what it would be like being in an RV7 or RV8 when this sort of thing happens
RV8
Maximum speed: 221 mph (356 km/h; 192 kn)
Cruise speed: 210 mph (182 kn; 338 km/h) at 75% power at 8000 feet.
Stall speed: 58 mph (50 kn; 93 km/h)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van's_Aircraft_RV-8

Oregon180 wrote:I propose a sticker for the tail that reads:

"If you can read this, then you should also be able to read FAR 91.111"

That's pretty funny...

With military aircraft, it is nice that everyone is ordered to monitor Guard, both VHF and UHF. The radios are set up with that capability. Without commo, I would change both altitude and heading to indicate not wanting to fly formation. Because I am comfortable with low altitude, I would go to the deck.

I had a similar situation over Dona Ana Range in the lower portion of White Sands. The restricted altitude was 500' AGL up to something much higher. I was crossing in a C-150 at about 100' AGL with another instructor who was hauling me back to my Pawnee which I had left just off a road I had landed on when a snow storm was about to overtake me a the day before. A Navy Crusader made a gun run on us. I knew he had to stay in the restricted airspace and that he was just messing with us, so I just turned into him causing him to have to increase his dive angle. This is a Army helicopter technique against fixed wing attack. He broke, came around for another run, and I again turned into him. This time I called on 121.5, "Crusader over Dona Ana Range, how is it going?" He broke and headed north, going back to Kirtland AFB, I assume. The Navy had Crusaders there.

Your situation was much scarier as you didn't know the level of training of the other pilot.

That loud roar you hear in the background is hundreds and hundreds of ultralight and sailplane and hang glider and bush pilots laughing their asses off

FAR 91 point whatever is all well and good. I have no problem that the rule exists. But I don't think anyone here has a panic attack when some stranger drives next to us on the road without establishing radio contact, or arranging it beforehand. I trust my fellow pilots more than my fellow drivers; although there are idiots in both groups, I still tend to think that pilots per capita have a little bit more on the ball.

So long as there is a way out (turning away from the other airplane),and so long as both pilots are aware of someone else sharing their airspace, I think it should be a mutual consent type of thing.

In Zane's case, he was not in the mood for impromptu formation flight, and when the other pilot got the message he went away. No harm, no foul, no justification WHATSOEVER to get upset and drop a dime on anyone.

If you're flying along and someone pulls up next to you wanting to play around, and they don't go away after you wave them off or shake your head "no", then there is justification to track the person down and chew them out, or call Ghostbusters, or whatever.

Now all this needs to be proportionate to the type of airplanes being flown and the distance between airplanes. If I'm buzzing along in my old 172, and someone is making 50 foot passes at me with an Apache gunship to the point where the downwash and wake turbulence is tossing me around, that's a different story. Not that a mid-air collision between two Quicksilvers is harmless, it can kill you the same as anything else. But the probability for errors is far lower when the airplanes are close in speed and performance.

Call me old school, but it really should take more than an uninvited offer to fly along in loose formation to get a pilot flustered or upset enough to take any serious action.

I'm not really the kind of guy who drops dimes on people, in fact I prefer that everyone mind their own business. But that also includes not following me in your airplane, or your car, or whatever. My first flights through solo were NORDO so I'm not stranger to that either, but I just kinda don't like that sort of attention. I also don't like dogs sniffing my butt.

Maybe she thought you were Chevy Chase.

It wasn't as dramatic as this I hope! Probably made you wish you were locked and loaded. I've been approached a time or two, but the closure rates was so fast, there wasn't much time except for a quick evasive maneuver.

I never like having some guy on my six ......whether I know him or not!

blackrock wrote:It wasn't as dramatic as this I hope!

Looks like Van's homecoming on steroids

Someone did that to me today. Saw a shadow on the ground and lifted my wing and someone was coming closer in a biplane. Found out they don't like to fly as low as I do and they broke off.

Maybe the CIA is following backcountry pilots around?

Some years ago a bunch of us went to Quilchena for lunch. It was agreed that we would go as a gaggle. Line astern and just keep the plane ahead in site. I was about 100 hrs at that time so I was really paying attention to keep up my end the deal. All of s sudden there was another 172 about 30' off my wing. This was this guys first flight after getting his licence. I straight out told him to get the F**K away from me and back were he belonged in the line. I do not like sneaky ups and I still do not care for formation flying. Just me.