Doing this with my wife is on our list of must dos before we die.

Just because it's very much on my mind (going flycamping on 6/23/07)...

How much useful load does a typical super cub have?

How heavy can my brass balls be in the scrotum, er belly pod?

I just did the weight and balance for my Musketeer with 3hr fuel, wife & I (380lbs), I can haul 350lb of camping gear. How does this compare with other < $50k taildraggers?

With some LSA's having a useful load of 650-700lbs I'm going to try and find one at Oshkosh that has a baggage compartment that can hold 200lbs. Any bets that I can find one?

- Todd Giencke[/i]

Hey tgiencke,

I just did the weight and balance for my Musketeer with 3hr fuel, wife & I (380lbs), I can haul 350lb of camping gear. How does this compare with other < $50k taildraggers?

I did a quick calculation for my Maule M5 180C, based on your numbers, and came up with 415lbs of luggage. My baggage area holds max 250lbs but you can quickly take out the back seat for much more area and capacity. So I would say your Musketeer can haul a pretty decent load.

I just did the weight and balance for my Musketeer with 3hr fuel, wife & I (380lbs), I can haul 350lb of camping gear. How does this compare with other < $50k taildraggers?

My 170 (< $50K):

Max gross: 2200 lbs
Empty weight: 1349 lbs
Rear seat removed: -30 lbs
Full fuel: 228 lbs
Myself and girlfriend: 350 lbs
------------------------------------
Total 1898 lbs

Which leaves ~ 302 lbs left over for gear. I can't imagine needing that much for my purposes. Subtract 100 lbs if Buddy or Father is substituted for diminutive girlfriend.

If I do my math right, in order for an LSA to have a 700 lb. useful load, then it must weigh no more than 620 lbs. That would be a very light airplane, not saying it can't be done, but I would have to see it on scales to believe it.

a64pilot wrote:If I do my math right, in order for an LSA to have a 700 lb. useful load, then it must weigh no more than 620 lbs. That would be a very light airplane, not saying it can't be done, but I would have to see it on scales to believe it.

My LSA Savannah comes close, at 630 pounds. With four hours of fuel, (55%) it can carry 470 pounds of useful cargo. It just sucks to have trucks pass you on the freeway is all. (80mph cruise)

tom

a64pilot wrote:If I do my math right, in order for an LSA to have a 700 lb. useful load, then it must weigh no more than 620 lbs. That would be a very light airplane, not saying it can't be done, but I would have to see it on scales to believe it.

There are a few LSA's that can haul their own weight. But this is a minimalistic airplane. (the way I like it) But the killer is they limit the baggage area to an almost unusable amount like 25lbs. That is like going cross country motorcycling with a toothbrush and a creditcard.

To me the only airplane spec that matters is useful load. Take a LSA that can haul it's own weight 660lbs and I'll round up the Rotax 912S fuel burn to 5gal/hr. So with 3hrs fuel (90lbs), wife & I (380lb), leaves 190lbs for camping gear. Now find me a LSA that I can put 190lbs in the baggage area?

Being an A&P/IA I'm even willing to work with a FSDO/DER on adding ballast so the plane will still be within CG. But good luck on finding a LSA baggage area rated for 190lb of structural strength.

Why am I so interested in LSA's when I already own a plane and have a private pilot lic? Because fuel prices just keep on climbing. Does the fuel prices lesson the amount I fly? No. I just keep calling the local FBO's and find the cheapest gas.

I want to fly behind a 100hp engine that burns 5gal/hr and I need 200lbs of camping gear and 3 hours of fuel. People are spending money on developing this type of plane to fit within the LSA rules so that is where I'm looking.

-Todd Giencke

it seems like a Catch 22. The airplane is light because it's small, which allows for a large useful load. But, since it's small, the baggage area cannot accomodate more than 25 lbs of cargo. I suppose if you could carry the load in the passenger area to balance the aircraft, it would be ok.

How do Super Cubs achieve such a large CG range, as they are touted as great carriers? What's the baggage limit on a SC with an extended baggage?

Jackscrew Zane, the CG magic is in the Jackscrew...

(50 lb. limit without mod - 180 lb. limit with mod)

The only LSA with a 700# useful load I know of is the Highlander... http://www.justaircraft.com/CMS/index.p ... &Itemid=44

Only 18 gals of fuel, but with 5 gal/hr at 90 knot cruise it's not too bad. I saw it at Arlington last year and it looks like a well produced kit. Definite Kitfox lineage.

OK,
I believe a 620 lb airplane exists, to my surprise that's with a four stroke engine as well
What is the CG range of a SC?

one word-- bushcaddy.com ok thats two , but check it out , you'll see what a lsa should be.

and with the right engine and motor mount combos i can get you that 190 lb baggage area. and its large enough to work. also has its own cargo door. trust me, check it out.

Also check out the Texas Sport. I think it can be built as LSA or with a 1650 gross. Build it with the higher gross but just register it with the lower gross. Maybe not legal but how many of thse planes we fly do we fly legal anyways!
Keith

Because the Super Cub is what most people use as a reference for a small bush plane; I looked up the spec in the original POH that we have on microfiche.

Super Cub PA-18-150 Normal Loading (150hp Lyc O-320)

Gross Weight - 1750 lb.
Empty Weight - 930 lb.
Useful Load - 820 lb.
Baggage Capacity - 50 lb.
Fuel Capacity - 36 gal

Cruising Speed - 100 kn.
Stalling Speed - 37 kn.
Takeoff Run - 200’
Takeoff over 50’ Barrier - 500’
Landing Roll - 350’
Best Rate Of Climb (Vy) - 960’/min.
Service Ceiling - 19,000’
Absolute Ceiling - 21,300’
Fuel Burn @ 75% - 9 gal/hr
Range @ 75% - 400nm

Super Cub PA-18-150 “Special Purpose” Loading (150hp Lyc O-320)

Gross Weight - 2070 lb.
Empty Weight - 930 lb.
Useful Load - 1140 lb.
Baggage Capacity - 50 lb.
Fuel Capacity - 36 gal

Cruising Speed - 98 kn.
Stalling Speed - 39 kn.
Takeoff Run - 300’
Takeoff over 50’ Barrier - 950’
Landing Roll - 410’
Best Rate Of Climb (Vy) - 760’/min.
Service Ceiling - 17,000’
Absolute Ceiling - 19,000’
Fuel Burn @ 75% - 9 gal/hr
Range @ 75% - 400nm

-Todd Giencke

But this is where it get's interesting; this is what I really want...

Super Cub PA-18-95 Normal Loading (90hp Cont C-90)

Gross Weight - 1500 lb.
Empty Weight - 800 lb.
Useful Load - 700 lb.
Baggage Capacity - 50 lb.
Fuel Capacity - 18 gal

Cruising Speed - 87 ktn.
Stalling Speed - 36 ktn.
Takeoff Run - 390’
Takeoff over 50’ Barrier - 750’
Landing Roll - 385’
Best Rate Of Climb (Vy) - 710’/min.
Service Ceiling - 15,750’
Absolute Ceiling - 17,750’
Fuel Burn @ 75% - 5 gal/hr
Range @ 75% - 313nm

So with the same figures wife & I (380lbs.), 3hrs fuel (90lbs.), we have have a useful load of 230lbs which some of it would have to go into a belly pod. The only killer is my wife hates tandem seating.

-Todd Giencke

As someone recently pointed out to me, if you can afford a Super Cub you can afford a Cessna 180. Don't know what the numbers are for a 180, but I'd be shocked if it doesn't have enought useful load for fuel and a comfortable camp for two.

This should make you all jealous:

Max gross weight Cessna 140: 1450lbs
Empty weight of my heavy 140: 1020lbs
Useful Load: 430lbs
Full Fuel: 150lbs
Payload: 280lbs

The good news is, my wife and I are both built like toothpicks. Not only can we legally takeoff with full fuel, but we can actually sit next to each other without elbowing each other out.

Todd,

And all those Piper figures you just quoted are fictional in the real world. I know of a couple of Super Cubs that are right at 1000 pounds. No electrics, no interior, no nothing, and I mean NOTHING.

Piper quoted the empty weight of the airplane as basic airplane. Electrics were an option, by the way, therefore not basic.

Most of the Super Cubs I see weigh around 1200 pounds in the real world. There are a few a little lighter and a VERY few somewhat lighter.

People will tell you their Cub weighs 1000 pounds. Ask them when the last time the airplane was on scales. Answer will likely be when it rolled out of the factory. That may be legal, actually, but it isn't the "real" weight of the airplane.

This is, by the way, the reason that Wipline got an stc to increase the gross weight of the Super Cub to 2000 pounds.

Note that the "Special Purpose" information you listed is for agricultural operations and ONLY for ag operations, under FAR 137.

The Top Cub we have here weighs 1307 on real scales. THe Gross weight is 2300 pounds, though, so it has close to an honest 1000 pound useful load.

MTV

ravi wrote:As someone recently pointed out to me, if you can afford a Super Cub you can afford a Cessna 180. Don't know what the numbers are for a 180, but I'd be shocked if it doesn't have enought useful load for fuel and a comfortable camp for two.

That is the only thing I have against either one, I can't afford them. So I have a M-6-235 for about half the price.

MTV- I know that the SC POH numbers were lieing. I was just passing what the POH was saying.

The idea I was trying to say was I'm looking for a 2 seat, 5gal/hr, 18gal tank, 200lb baggage, 680lb useful load airplane.

I don't care if it has an electrical system. (Kind of weird coming from an avionics tech, eh?)

The C-90 Super Cub is the one of the few planes that on paper with a belly pod can fill my wants. And as an A&P/IA I don't mind building my own from a piece here and there.

I just really enjoy flying. And because I like spending a lot of time in the air I want to get my burn rate down to the minimum but at the same time I need a useful plane to go do things with.

Got to run.

Todd Giencke

Todd,

I flew a Super Cub that a mechanic built up in Fairbanks that was an honest (weighed by someone else) 1020 pounds, on 29 inch tires. It had an electrical system, AND the Wipline 2000 pound gross weight kit, AND the third seat mod, for a 180 pound baggage legal.

It didn't have much else but a gps/comm. No vacuum, no gee-gaws, etc.

It flew like a dream. At that weight, he had a 980 pound honest useful load, with TWO 18 gallon tanks. The fuel burn on that plane, fairly light was around 7.

What he did was found a 125 Cub, converted it to a 150 (less ribs in the wings on the 125, so lighter) and just kept the crap out of it. A great and very legal airplane.

Most folks want to start with a 90 hp Cub, but then you don't have flaps, and they don't convert easily to 150 hp.

The 125 with upgrades is a great airplane. Leave the electrics off, and you could get it to the mid 900's.

MTV