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Backcountry Pilot • User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Not necessarily information about airstrips or airports, but more general info about a greater area or a route of flight.
46 postsPage 2 of 31, 2, 3

Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

So Theresa please go FUCK yourself!


Wow, sounds like a conversation with my ex-wife..haha. I would call her a c***, but she lacks both the warmth and the depth. :D
Any kind of ramp fee's on a public supported airport, is bullshit. That to me is like pulling over to use a public rest room on a state interstate highway rest area and being charged to park, so you can go take a walk to stretch your legs and take a pit stop. Should be acrime. no doubt that the business is there to make a profit. But to just pull onto the ramp is retarded.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Rob, I sent my comment..may never land there but this could get out of hand and spread like the plauge..nip it in the bud!!!
HC
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Small aircraft will be charged $10 to $25 to land, taxi and park on the ramp. Five and six passenger planes will pay about $150, corporate jets that carry nine to 15 people will pay $200-$400 and large 737's that carry up to 180 people will be charged $645


So if you land with a 206 its 150 bucks? And the fees for larger traffic? I don't know what large airports fees are but $645 seem excessive. I think this will drive away more than just the little guys.

I pay my tax's I pay taxes for The FAA and airports with the 100LL I buy!


With her brain power she would be best suited for the airport restaurant waitress,not the airport manager. ( who'd she ---- to get that job)
I'll sign the petition,.
Last edited by Throttle Pusher on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Oh and I sent a nicely worded message as well.
I agree with EZFlap this should be taken to the next level, They get Federal funding and I'm sure mone from the National gard as well,they should;\'nt be able to impose user tax in such a way. [-X

Ken
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Guys, the language. Normally I don't mind profanity around here, but if you want anyone to be linked to this thread, keep it out of Hot Air by cutting down on the degrading comments toward women. It makes us look like vulgar simpletons rather than an organized interest group. Many people stop reading at the first sign of "offensive" language. I was going to link to this thread on our Facebook page, but scratch that.

Not to mention, we are getting a little exposure to industry people from this raffle business. Let's stay a little more professional in threads out in the open. Thanks.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

A landing fee of $10-$20 isnt that big of a deal if I need to go to that airport and I have a wad of hundreds in my pocket. If I dont need to go there or Im counting my pennys to see how far I can fly today I wouldnt go there. I have been getting a lot of "We only want corporate jets here" kind of crap from airports that look down at my spam cans. FBOs used to be nice to the little guy because he may show up wanting fuel for some big jet in the future but now its short sighted or less optimistic. It seems that Public airports with Fed funding get a little big sucking on that tit and all of a sudden they turn into the DMV on you.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

An airline captain friend of mine sent this to me today.

"San Deigo Lindberg is charging $300- for a ramp fee for singles. Scottsdale is charging $10- a night also these fees are pretty much the norm anywhere you fly. You notice if you buy gas and don't spend the night there is no charge."
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User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

I don't care about the language. If some corporation doesn't want to advertise with us because we are potty mouth so be it.

They are offering merchandise because it is good for business.

I would be happy to lead a group to OTH land refuse to pay the fee and leave. Call it a little civial disobedence.

Good day
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

I was headed there in August. I don't mind reasonable overnight tie down fees. My idea of "reasonable" is always going to be less than what an FBO business owner considers reasonable these days, but that's life, and I have choices. I am very cynical about landing fees at a publicly funded strip. This particular airport doesn't strike me as being in need of a tower in the first place, much like Bozeman, MT., which is a laughable legacy of political pork. Aspen and Telluride barely even exist to me any more due to fees.

Often, an airport advisory board takes it on themselves to commit local government to going after "free" (well, 90% "free") fed money to install towers, widen runways, lengthen runways...all to go after the pot of fuel taxes etc that is simply waiting at the end of the rainbow. The result is usually (almost always) short-sighted, budgets come up short, and grass starts to grow in the cracks of the fancy new (empty) tarmac. Fees are talked about to make up the difference.

There are other airports with gas and no fees just minutes away. It doesn't make sense.

They are basically saying "buy a little gas here and the use fee is waived". I try to plan fuel purchases wherever I land to help maintain rural fuel availability, and sometimes even lighting and security (ever show up to your plane in the morning to have a guy trying to break in? I have- in Alaska). In the scheme of things, the $40 I might spend in tie down fees for good anchors and convenient access to local rental cars is dwarfed by the $2000 I'll have into my entire trip with motels, eating well, and car rental.

If the fee were to go up much, I believe Gold B or the other towns would get my business.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Oregon airport resists inquiries on new fees

By Dan Namowitz
AOPA has sent two letters to the operator of the Southwest Oregon Regional Airport in an effort to determine whether a new set of use and overnight charges was developed in compliance with FAA policy.

The association has also made the FAA aware that the initial faxed response of the airport’s management to a June 7 letter from Bill Dunn, AOPA vice president of airport advocacy, failed to provide “answers to the very specific questions which we posed to the Coos County Airport District.”

On June 9, Dunn reiterated his request for information in a second letter to the management of the North Bend, Ore., airport. AOPA plans to analyze the method used by the airport management in establishing the fees when considering further action.

AOPA inquired about the fee-setting process used by the airport after receiving information through the Airport Support Network that the new fee schedule had been enacted in what appeared to be an arbitrary manner, with no comparison of fees schedules at comparable airports or input from tenants or aircraft operators using the airport.

“While the airport clearly has the authority to implement a rate and fee structure that will make the airport as self-sufficient as possible under the current airport conditions as provided under the Federal Aviation Administration grant assurances, such fees must be fair and reasonable without any unjust discrimination,” Dunn wrote on June 7.

He pointed out that airport management may not establish fees “simply to ‘bank’ funds past what would be ordinarily necessary” to fund airport development, operations or the local matching share of grants.

When the airport management responded with only a faxed magazine article and a Wikipedia item on landing fees, Dunn requested the information again on June 9, and he set forth the principles applicable to establishing airport rates and charges under FAA policy.

His second letter to Theresa M. Cook, the airport district’s executive director, contained these specific requests for information:

The methodology used to define the criteria used to establish each of the rate classes and placement of specific named aircraft into specific class.
The methodology used to establish the monetary amounts for each of the rate classes.
The number of consultative meetings held with tenants and/or operators at the airport to present relevant information regarding the fees and structure.
Costs (dollar amount and project/item) included in the rate base as defined in the FAA Rates and Charges Policy.”
A copy of Dunn’s June 9 letter was also sent to the FAA’s Seattle, Wash., Airports District Office.

The National Business Aviation Association was also reviewing the potential impact of the fees on its members, Dunn said.

June 10, 2011
Last edited by Hafast on Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

With reference to another discussion on this board months ago, THIS is why I am HAPPY to pay my AOPA dues every year...
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Let's revive a dead thread...

Does anybody know what happened with this?
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

I will add this to the BS file...........

Carbon credits...... Who gets the money??????????

http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=8073

Ben.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

I don't know what happened. But NB has not got a penny of my money, and won't till they pull their heads out of their arss.

Good day
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Stol wrote:I will add this to the BS file...........

Carbon credits...... Who gets the money??????????

http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=8073

Ben.


Here's how I understand it. The idealized version is that a polluting business that cannot clean up its act pays money as an incentive to a second business that can, but chooses not to because it hurts the bottom line and its own profitability. The carbon payment becomes a penalty financially lowering the profitability of the first polluting business but increases the bottom line of the second business that would be less profitable, or not exist at all without that credit payment. Because of the ongoing cost of carbon credits, the next generating plant built by business one no doubt will include cleaner emissions to eliminate the cost of the credits. This whole carbon credit trade speeds the transition time until business one puts up the new cleaner plant and by making polluting more expensive to the bottom line, speeds it along. Theoretically.

Local example: Florida Power and Light has coal and oil fired electricity generating plants built 50 yrs ago that cannot be upgraded to clean its smoke stacks without building an entirely new facility. It is just not cost effective and the existing plant may yet have another 20-30 yr life expectancy. So instead of building a new plant that is cleaner it might be cheaper do something to offset that polluting coal plant. It chooses the cheaper option. It could buy carbon credits from possibly a wind tower company that produces clean electricity so then the wind farm company becomes a profitable reality or it could just come to my back yard and build the wind tower farm itself, which it did. It produces the same result. The average kilowat of electricity produced by FPL just got cleaner when the coal plant and wind farms are averaged together. Who forced them to put up an offsetting wind farm or buy carbon credits? No one. They did it themselves but probably would not have been done either if there had been no future fears put in their mind that they might be forced to reduce their carbon emissions at some point by the EPA. They realize that the EPA regulation of carbon emissions is something that this way comes. The name of their clean energy investments is FPL Next Gen and includes wind, solar, geothermal and whatever other clean energy they can produce, or cause others to produce through carbon credits, to lower their average emission per KW. Anyway this is a simplified version of what actually happened here.

The Jackson Hole Airport may try this but unless it is done on larger scale by many airports, it will have minimal effect on the environment as a whole. The big gains will be made by the largest polluters and that is energy producers themselves. Jackson Hole airport might be tipping their hat to carbon neutral but their hat size is too small to matter and it comes off more like a parade of.. Look at Me, My Humility is Bigger Than Yours.
Last edited by dirtstrip on Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Dirtstrip... I agree with your assessment of how this carbon credit thing should work.. My concern is the potential for massive fraud is ripe..... Who holds the money till it is forwarded to the cleaner business ? You can bet scam artists will line up and create " clean energy" companies like Solyndra, get the credits coming their way and vaporize the cash before an investigation can gain momentum... They get caught... testify before a senate subcommitee and say "I am sorry,, but the money is gone".. They get a 5 minute tongue lashing by the politicians and then they are off to pull another scam... Rinse and repeat...... Rinse and repeat... :roll: :roll:

Ben.

Ps.. who pays if a volcano blows off, spewing 100's if not 1000's of times more CO into the sky? #-o #-o
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

This Carbon Credit scam might be a good thing...

Down at Marietta International...

Image

I'm gonna set up a toll booth, and take cash, credit cards, and carbon credits for my landing fees.



Gump
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

Stol wrote:
Ps.. who pays if a volcano blows off, spewing 100's if not 1000's of times more CO into the sky? #-o #-o


And brush/forest fires??? By the way, just these three incidences been going on for hundreds/thousands/millions of years.
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

If I landed there, without knowing in advance of the fee, IMMEDIATELY upon being advised of it I would tell them "Excuse me, I made a mistake, I shouldn't be here, see ya", and then would leave ASAP without paying. That's illegal? They going to call the tower? Or the sheriff? Both?!! I don't mind the occasional 5 bucks here and there that end up going towards keeping toilet paper in the pilot lounge or maintaining the loaner car, this is not that. Tower equipped, I'd avoid it anyway so not an issue anyway I guess. They probably don't allow grass landings either [-X
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Re: User fees at North Bend, OR (OTH)

stol
Who holds the money? That is exactly why the first choice by the polluting company is to build and own the offsetting carbon lowering business themselves. All the money stays in house for FPL. When a new cleaner generating facility is built then they will not need as many wind turbines. I can't see it ever happening to a power generating company but for some companies, they could actually end up having extra "green credits" to sell to another company and the cycle continues.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to come down in favor of, or against carbon trading with this post. You are right this is ripe for abuse. IF we are headed for disaster with carbon emissions in 20 years and all that is done is add wind towers to existing emissions, then the total emissions necessary for disaster is already out there. Carbon trading at best is a bridge system to stimulate new growth of cleaner sources and speed demise of old plants but does not lower total emissions during the carbon trade time of that plant it only dilutes the AVERAGE per KW while the total emissions remain the same or possibly increase.

As far as who holds the money in the trade itself, it is called CCX for Chicago Carbon Exchange. Good deal for AEC and Ford and other companies who had a hand in setting it up and also had an interest in seeing offsetting credit prices kept low enough for the credit penalty to become a non-incentive to upgrade emissions from factories. It does hold the appeal of being a free market, voluntary trade system similar to the Chicago Board of Trade.
Farmers Union also dealt in carbon credits for a time for carbon capture in the soil by farmers. That program was discontinued about a year or so ago when it was difficult to sell the credits to companies at a price that made it worthwhile for farmers to participate. The established low CCX credit price was one reason.

http://www.voanews.com/learningenglish/ ... 30467.html
http://pierce.uwex.edu/agriculture/file ... nswers.pdf
Last edited by dirtstrip on Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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