Your thoughts on what sitting 10 or 20 years in side or out does to the value of a plane ?
I’d assume 10 years inside a climate controlled hanger is way better than 40 on the ramp in the jungle but what specifically are the key points and timeframes ?

As a starting point it seems like there are several Alaskan , midwestern and north eastern 170s Stinson ,Aeronca sedans, and piper high wings that have been sitting at the ramp 20 years.
Are they actually worth ANYTHING ?

This is a very tough question. It really depends. I bought a 206 that was sitting for 8 years, but it was decently clean. I've put a lot of hrs into it now, but I have the ability to do so. If someone was to pay me for all that time they'd end up with a fairly expensive airplane.
The climate that the plane is in also plays a big factor. Humid area? Any mills or plants nearby that put out acidic toxins? I would go into it with an open mind. Dont get your heart set on an airplane until you've had a very thorough look at it.

You're talking about the airplanes I flew as a young public school teacher and weekend warrior and starting out with a business crop duster. I had very little money and yes, at dirt cheap, they fit the bill. Now that I have money from my part of the family farms, I have no interest in them.

I had a mechanical/farm background, but I would have much less forced landing experience had I paid a good IA to look over my early purchases.

I know of one 172 that sat outside at Crest airport for over 20 years. It was rescued by a cfi named Skinner cleaned up and is still flying today. I know of a Cherokee that sat out at Auburn fot years and was a disaster. As A1skinner says it is a crapshoot. Really look them over and pay little.
Ron

Just now wrapping up on a Beech that had been sitting on the ramp for over 10 years. Lots of "gotchas". I think the owner will still come out OK financially. Buying something like that you have to go into it as a project or rebuild mentality; it is not going to be a case of putting fresh gas and wash it. All the rubber seals and hoses from (and including) the prop back are going to fail in short order. Rust in the cylinders, interior pieces are photo degraded, fabric is rotten (think re-cover), tires are rotten, brake lines, oil lines, fuel lines, the list good on.

Never fails to amaze me the amount of seemingly abandoned planes at most airports. I sitting here dreaming of owning one and someone else just neglects one. I imagine most are not plain neglect though - likely deaths, etc. Can't imagine why a pilot would use abandon one otherwise, and at least not sell it to get some cash value back.

Wish I wasn't an A&P as it would make rescuing one more doable it seems as you would avoid the labor costs for the vast amount of work that would be likely.

I think you have to really know what you are doing, or really not know what you are doing, to take one on. Being lucky would help either way.

If you want to go flying buy a flying airplane.

Ramp Mummies are nothing new. I recall the early 1970's in Fairbanks seeing several at Phillips and Metro Fields with flat tires and an old coat of seasonal dirt or snow. Life gets in the way and the owners pass or loose time and money if not interest. So the plane that was once relatively cheap sits. But back then labor and parts were far cheaper than today even with inflation added so they were eventually recycled. Today labor rate has at least quadrupled and parts I don't know but it's at least that or more.

The problem now is who will do the restoration and for how much? It takes time and a cash flow plus a place to recreate the former quality. Few have all three and still are able to earn a living if young and it's a DIY project, and the old if affluent see a project that often fails to end in a timely manner.

Mummies have a value assuming they are still airworthy and have useable life left in the components. Buying at what the owner feels it's worth to them then adding value through parts and labor, while not exceeding a recoverable investment, is something best evaluated before the project.

For example there's a plane here that hasn't flown in many years. It's unairworthy and unregistered. The fabric and wood underlayment is compromised and admittedly needs repair, and the Lycoming engine has sat. Still, when asked, the owner has a fixed value for years in mind that would allow him to afford a better plane. There's no way that particular plane could be made airworthy without exceeding it's market value unless the labor was free and parts readily available at exceptional prices. That's the dilemma faced by many prospective owners.

Gary

PA1195 wrote:…..Mummies have a value assuming they are still airworthy and have useable life left in the components. Buying at what the owner feels it's worth to them then adding value through parts and labor, while not exceeding a recoverable investment, is something best evaluated before the project. For example there's a plane here that hasn't flown in many years. It's unairworthy and unregistered. The fabric and wood underlayment is compromised and admittedly needs repair, and the Lycoming engine has sat. Still, when asked, the owner has a fixed value for years in mind that would allow him to afford a better plane. There's no way that particular plane could be made airworthy without exceeding it's market value unless the labor was free and parts readily available at exceptional prices....

Most mummy owners have an unrealistic idea of what their (former) pride & joy are worth.
I think they look in T-A-P, see what the nicest ones are going for, then discount theirs by about 3%.
Likewise, most people contemplating purchase of a mummy, even some long-time airplane owners,
have an unrealistic idea of what it'll cost to get that diamond in the rough squared away.
While there are some among us who could make a project pencil out,
I think most folks (esp if they have to hire much of the work out)
can easily end up with $50K invested in an airplane that's worth maybe 35.
Sometimes the project doesn't pencil out even if you can get the carcass for free.
It's funny, but the people who seem to think they can buy a derelict and with "a little" time and money have a great flyer,
are often people who barely know which end of a screwdriver to hold.

My current plane was a ramp dog for 14 years, my previous 2 planes were also ramp dogs for 7 years and 10 years respectively. All 3 of them had one thing in common to make them flyable, FREE LABOR and quite a bit of it. They all had strange problems that I didn't expect, and 2 of them I ended up replacing every switch in the plane after a year of flying because things would randomly not work for a day, then work next time. They were all bought cheap, with the expectation that they would not fly in 2 weeks, but when you have more time than money an Ercoupe in a barn with no engine and no damage for $3,000 can be a good option.

I think it would at least halve the value of the aircraft.
Find an in annual and flying example with similar time and similar equipment for sale - the one sitting for 10 or 20 years is worth half of that.

Also, I wouldn't consider a ramp mummy as a first aircraft nor even first aircraft of that type unless you're good friends with someone who's already rebuilt that type of aircraft. Too many gotchas to learn along the way.

Sometimes you can get something for free and you still paid too much. [emoji6]

The Mummy Returns....see page 14 on: http://members.eaavintage.org/wp-conten ... n-1988.pdf

Gary

Goldinthecreek wrote:Your thoughts on what sitting 10 or 20 years in side or out does to the value of a plane ?
I’d assume 10 years inside a climate controlled hanger is way better than 40 on the ramp in the jungle but what specifically are the key points and timeframes ?

As a starting point it seems like there are several Alaskan , midwestern and north eastern 170s Stinson ,Aeronca sedans, and piper high wings that have been sitting at the ramp 20 years.
Are they actually worth ANYTHING ?

If you want to become an A&P and you have lots of free time....go for it. You will get to touch every system in the airplane. There is no free lunch.

Basically 3 kinds of planes:
The best you can afford - Taken care of by the previous owner and will be low cost over time since everything is in decent shape.
The deal - The price seemed good but you find out there are major issues....like corrosion or a rotten engine. These sometimes cost more than the "best you can afford"
The project - These start at 10-20% of the price of the best you can afford. Eventually you end up to 80% or so of the best you can afford.


Whatever you buy.... Get it flying. Just fix what will kill you. Don't buy carpet. Don't buy led lights. Don't make your interior look like a million bucks. Get it flying and get a handle on what you have before sinking too much of your maintenance reserve into it.

On that note, here is a 1961 182D ramp mummy (1100 hours TTAF) bought for $6k, that gobbled up $20k in parts and a bunch of labor to bring it back to airworthy condition.

Major parts included a new interior, fuel bladders, new prop, and new engine accessories. The rest was all sweat equity.

You gotta be an A&P IA to make it work.

https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/topic?t=22295