Builders: Anyone using one of these? It is, as far as I know, limited to Experimental, but it seems like a really cool setup.

I've had my eye on one of the new generation mini EFIS units that's modular with AHRS sensors and radios and all sorts of fun stuff. Supposedly the VP-X makes that integration a little easier by providing a common data and power bus.

I've fallen in love with electric trim on the stick, having spent many hours in the CubCrafters planes. This gives you a way to pipe trim position sensor into the EFIS display, as well as control your trim servo.

So, the myriad options and configurations are there, my question is: Would you? $1,295 for the VP-X Sport model + harnesses. No breakers in the panel. It weighs 2 lbs. what does a bank of breakers weigh?

I also could give a rip about flying IFR, at least at this point in my life. Maybe I will in the future, who knows. For a bush plane though, in the interest of weight savings, getting all solid state and integrated glass seems overly complex, but it works out to be less complex I think.

As a power bus, is this creating extra failure points? Or eliminating them?

http://verticalpower.com/vp-x/

Thoughts?

Hey Zzz,
I used the VPX Sport in my project. I don't have too many hours behind it yet, but it sure simplified the wiring and I have nothing but great things to say about the support from the company and the interface for setup software. Very versatile. One area it saves further weight is when installing electric pitch and roll trim, eliminating indicators and wiring, in addition to being light itself.
I did a lot of research before going this route and it seems many, many other experimentals (RVs in particular) fly IFR with this product.
The company has been bought by a much larger avionics company, and it seems other advanced products will be coming out from them in the near future.
Cheers
Cam

We looked at it too, and had we seen it sooner we may have used it.

One down side with EFIS systems is there are a lot of black boxes and pretty soon you run out of ideas where to stuff them. It would be cool to get rid of the breakers and switches, although they are light and don't take up a lot of panel real estate.

Hey Zane,

My neighbor and hanger buddy used it in his RV-9a. It's very slick and he loves it. Were I building, I don't think I'd think twice about going that direction.

I'm in a quandary over these same issues Z. There is no question that glass will save weight over a steam gauge panel. I keep coming back to SuperMaule's panel though. (Ok, I don't thinks that's right. Who's the guy that instigated the Columbia River Island fly in sorta clinic last year) What do we really need? Airspeed, altitude, some engine gauges, radio/transponder, and a compass? In addition to those I want a needle/ball function in case I do something really stupid and a decent GPS.

So I need a breaker for:
Radio
Transponder
GPS
Strobes
Engine Gauges Unit
Rotax requires power?
Ooops forgot;
Trim
Flaps (the flaps handle in the Zenith is notoriously difficult to master)

I just bought a vacuum needle ball from a chap in England that was an Air Force spares for the Chipmunk. It's fresh rebuild from who knows when sealed in a can. $100 or so shipped. I may use it or not, I dunno. I just don't want to lose site of the goal here. Light and simple.

The MGL mini EFIS can be configured for all those functions and more for about $3K. Then a Garmin 696 and call it a day. I dunno. Keep us informed as to what you finally decide.

Wow! Great looking product. It looks like a time machine for homebuilders (saves time).

It would be nice if the AUX video input to most displays would do better than VGA, especially when the native resolution is so nice.

It would be nice if they had generic I/O options for totalizers and other things as well...a headless engine analyzer could be less expensive and report to something like this for display. It could also replace an audio panel with a bit more functionality, reducing costs even more.

The Dynon Skyview system has multiple serial ports, things like fuel flow sensors, trim and flap indicators, etc., are simple to hook up to the system. It is probably not what you would call a mini-EFIS though, it's got EFIS, engine monitoring, GPS and synthetic vision (?!). They also sell a Xponder and might have a comm radio available at this time. Xponder is very light, mounts anywhere in the plane and is controlled through the display. The only analog instrument on the panel is AOA meter. If I lose electrical power the back up system is to look out the window.

I looked at the VP systems for my Highlander because of the ease of installation. I ended up not using it because electrical systems were the weakest part of my skill set so I wanted to handwire everything to learn about it. I didn't use circuit breakers, I used a fuse block and automotive fuses. They are excellent and are a fraction of the cost. There are fuse blocks that can be mounted on the panel that look OK, but I used the basic industrial fuse block and mounted it on the firewall about 6 inches above the pilots feet.

handsrdirty wrote:The Dynon Skyview system has multiple serial ports, things like fuel flow sensors, trim and flap indicators, etc., are simple to hook up to the system. It is probably not what you would call a mini-EFIS though, it's got EFIS, engine monitoring, GPS and synthetic vision (?!). They also sell a Xponder and might have a comm radio available at this time. Xponder is very light, mounts anywhere in the plane and is controlled through the display. The only analog instrument on the panel is AOA meter. If I lose electrical power the back up system is to look out the window.

I looked at the VP systems for my Highlander because of the ease of installation. I ended up not using it because electrical systems were the weakest part of my skill set so I wanted to handwire everything to learn about it. I didn't use circuit breakers, I used a fuse block and automotive fuses. They are excellent and are a fraction of the cost. There are fuse blocks that can be mounted on the panel that look OK, but I used the basic industrial fuse block and mounted it on the firewall about 6 inches above the pilots feet.

Good move Hands, hell they work for our cars and trucks, what's so special about aircraft? I see VANS does something similar on their LSA. Some may say bad idea, you can't re-set in flight, but so what? In 5 different homebuilts I have NEVER had a fuse or breaker blow, much less on something critical to flight and in flight. I do like the VP system, but when push comes to shove I'd probably, if I build again, go automotive and call it good. Then I'd spend the money saved on gas

Good points from everyone. I'm still a ways out from my panel but it's something to consider now because, you know, high level planning for the complete system, AND I am at the point where I'm working on the trim servo and running wire from tail to the front.

I'm not sure whether to go mini EFIS or larger EFIS or what. There are several offerings on the market, but I'm tending toward the Advanced Flight Systems because they're here in the area. Dynon is tried and true option as well, and they're pretty much the same price. I like the modularity, and coupling that with a smart power distribution system seems even better.

But I can't argue with courierguy. Breakers or even a fuse block is cheap. This is my dream plane though, why skimp?

The extra $700 for the VP-X Pro or whatever gets you the "dual bus." Does that seem useful? If something is going to fail on this unit, will having two logical buses keep, say, your starter and stuff online if the avionics side of the bus fails?

Sounds like you're pretty sold on the VP, it's a good system. For a fair price comparison I would include labor. If your time is limited and you calculate a reasonable rate for your hours, no doubt the VP is competitive with hand wiring inexpensive components like I did. That dual buss technology would be a good investment for IMC flying, don't know about VFR.

For reference:

Here's a link to what I used:
http://www.steinair.com/store.cfm?tlcatid=13


Here's a link to a nice ATO fuse block that has rear terminals for panel mounting (they are harder to find):
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann/transportation/products/power_distribution/fuse_panels/series_15710_rearterminalatcfusepanel.html (thanks to Danerazz)

Here's a link to a buss bar that I used for my ground buss, it makes a nice bullet proof system:
http://www.steinair.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=310 I drilled out one of the threaded terminals and replaced it with a threaded brass rod with an integrated solder flange (aka toilet closet bolt) to go through the firewall, which makes a good terminal on the engine side to connect ground buss to the negative side of the starter.

I'm going through the decision making process now on a major panel upgrade. I love the looks and functionality of a glass panel but probably won't put one in because there are other fun things to put in the panel that will use up all the money. There's a good article in the last issue of IFR magazine that compares the use of steam gauges to PFD-MFD-GPS in terms of safety. The article covers how people can get themselves in trouble if they approach flight planning, setup, and execution for technically advanced aircraft using the same habits they first learned for a steam gauge panel.

Coondawg wrote:I'm going through the decision making process now on a major panel upgrade. I love the looks and functionality of a glass panel but probably won't put one in because there are other fun things to put in the panel that will use up all the money. There's a good article in the last issue of IFR magazine that compares the use of steam gauges to PFD-MFD-GPS in terms of safety. The article covers how people can get themselves in trouble if they approach flight planning, setup, and execution for technically advanced aircraft using the same habits they first learned for a steam gauge panel.

That's a good point. You're a Bearhawk Patrol?

Does anyone think this VPX unit still makes sense without the EFIS? Radios, transponder, GPS, starter, lighting, electric pitch trim, engine monitoring... all that stuff still benefits even without the integration possibilities of an EFIS.

A minor thread drift here, but has anyone besides me ever thought that since these inexpensive glass panels (relatively) have come along that would seem to this VFR pilot to allow one to play with some IFR, that this may not be a good thing? I KNOW the theory is NOT to use it, though often I have heard something along the lines of "well, just in case, I got a way out".

Somewhere in the decision making process, as to whether to push on through that foggy pass or not, having all that gee whiz capability in the panel I am pretty sure, is influencing some in flight decisions by unqualified (non IFR trained anyway) pilots. Maybe it's saving their ass's also, but should they "be there" at all? Personally, I would go out of my way to NOT have the capability for flight with visual references least I be tempted to push things more then I do now, at least now I turn the hell around before I need more then a pair of eyeballs outside the cockpit. Or, do the benefits outweigh the potential bad? I don't know if there has been a rash of accidents due to this new tech gear, hell maybe the rate is down for all I know as per flying into shit that in the past a less well equipped pilot would have turned around in. OK, a major thread drift.

We are doing the AFS5800 panel in our S7S. Good customer support. The freaking manual is huge though and frequently updated with some mistakes in it. No other gauges of any kind. Dynon comm and intercom. Maybe a transponder box next year and ADS-B, don't need it here yet. Lots of wiring involved...not a small job by any means. I will get some pictures up as soon as the panel gets cleared and installed.

Aircraft breakers are $18 apiece...nothing in the scheme of things. I have had way too many fuse block issues with cars, trucks, and heavy equipment. Wouldn't even consider it personally but to each their own. That's the beauty of EAB!

gbflyer wrote:We are doing the AFS5800 panel in our S7S.

I will be picking your brain at some point.

For me, I like to keep in mind that sometimes really cool new stuff doesn't last forever. Will the VP-X be around in 30 years for replacement/support? I bet that klixon circuit breakers will! That may not be important to some people, but it is to me because I plan on keeping my airplane that long. If I were building with the intention of selling or short term ownership, that would definitely change how I would equip the airplane.