Hello,

Has anyone ever considered this

http://alaskaairmen.org/?page_id=203

I read somewhere that a route that extends to Japan was being negotiated, but can not find more info about it. I don't think who ever was working on it got very far. Recently there has been quite a few adventure touring motorcycle guys who have crossed Russia and had their bikes flown from Magadan Russia to Anchorage. Most of them report that they were welcomed most everywhere they went and the only trouble they had was with the roads, or lack of roads.
The couple of articles I have been able to find about flying say there is no avgas, just jet fuel. I have an idea that this flight would be possible in a light sport (well, sort of light sport, it wouldn't be legally by the time it was loaded to go) and use auto fuel rather than having to source 100ll.

I seen a few stories over the years about people who have flown from Europe to Oshkosh in every thing from homebuilt helicopters to ultralights, so why couldn't I fly a light sport to Japan? Looking at maps, there wouldn't even be that many open water crossings. I would imagine there would be some issues with landing on beaches and such to camp in a country that is not used to any general aviation, and I would also want a pretty strong understanding of the language before going.

Like have stated here before, I am just a student pilot and A&P. I am an experienced backcountry explorer on motorcycles, Jeeps, ski's and on foot. I am rebuilding a 7AC and will have it done by April, and hope to have 150 hours flying it this summer as I either build from scratch, or rebuild my next aircraft. I think if I were to decide to pursue a trip like this, I would set a goal of going in 2013 at the earliest, but could see it taking me till 2015.

Thoughts, Opinions, stories, feedback, and ridicule are being solicited and will be appreciated.

Here is a better description of the route and some good pictures. It says they wanted to connect the route to Japan in 2006.

http://www.aopa.jp/english/howtofly/j-r-a/felix.pdf

There are two difficulties to flying through Russia: As you already figured out, availability of avgas, or gasoline period.

Secondly, and perhaps more important in a light aircraft is the requirement to carry a Russian "navigator" along on all transiting flights by GA aircraft. As far as I know, that's a hard and fast rule, except for short forays into and back out of Russian airspace. The "navigator" has to be designated by the government. And, they're paid. The big problem with a small airplane is space and weight.

Several years ago, a fellow from South Africa flew to Oshkosh in a Kitfox (Avid???), coming through Russia. His "ferry tank" sat in the right seat normally, and he kept a dozen or so one gallon milk jugs full of gas in the back. When the ferry tank got low on fuel, he'd uncork a jug or four and pour em into the tank in the right seat.

Putting a navigator in there presented a problem. He fixed the problem by asking the navigator to put the ferry tank on his lap, and pour one gallon jugs of gas into it at intervals.....There were photos of a smiling navigator in the EAA magazine as I recall.

Whatever works, I reckon.

MTV

mtv wrote:There are two difficulties to flying through Russia: As you already figured out, availability of avgas, or gasoline period.


Secondly, and perhaps more important in a light aircraft is the requirement to carry a Russian "navigator" along on all transiting flights by GA aircraft.


Several years ago, a fellow from South Africa flew to Oshkosh in a Kitfox (Avid???), coming through Russia. His "ferry tank" sat in the right seat normally, and he kept a dozen or so one gallon milk jugs full of gas in the back. When the ferry tank got low on fuel, he'd uncork a jug or four and pour em into the tank in the right seat.

....There were photos of a smiling navigator in the EAA magazine as I recall.


MTV

1.If there is gas that is high enough in quality to run a modern motorcycle on, then I would think there would be some hope of getting fuel for a light aircraft. I think I would devise some sort of prefilter system too.

2.I wonder if the navigator requirement can be avoided if there was indeed an airway established between Alaska and Japan? I also wonder if it would be possible, with advanced planning to select my own navigator. The Internet and social networking make friendship with persons in far away places much easier to make. I am also not dead set on light sport as the type of aircraft. I just think that LSA would be more of an adventure.

3. Any idea of what year EAA mag that was? I am heading over to the EAA site right after I send this to see if there are old issues for sale. I may have to send them an email and see if anyone there remembers it.

Thanks for the input, gives me a few more things to think about. I am not actually planning this yet, but it has been on my mind as a "I wonder if I could...." sort of thing. In that past, ideas like these that I have had have either grown into something cool, or fizzled into the "thats would have been a bad idea" file.

When I flew into Russia in the early 90s the Navigators worked for Aeroflot and were assigned by them. When you apply for permission they (whoever they is) looks at all their data on the airplane, airport and route and that partially makes their decision. If you wanted to fly a 747 into a 3000 ft. strip you would be denied. They won't tell you why you are denied either. They don't want an accident any more than you do. On one flight I got to compare the navigators enroute chart, which was a Jeppesen product, with our Jeppesen chart and there were a lot more lines on his. On the other hand his approach charts were very nice copies of hand drawn procedures.

The basic rule is you need a navigator unless you are flying to/from an International airport on an approved route which means English speaking controllers working those sectors. I would imagine getting permission would be time consuming. Part of the approval process will be for some bureaucrat in Moscow contacting every local authority along your route for his approval. Any one of them saying no will mean niet to the whole thing, and you'll never know who or why. Take extra copies of your approval letter just in case you end up landing off of the approved route, at least then the local constable will have something in Russian to read.

DavidB asked:

Any idea of what year EAA mag that was? I am heading over to the EAA site right after I send this to see if there are old issues for sale. I may have to send them an email and see if anyone there remembers it.

David, Michel Gordillo flew his Kitfox east from Madrid to Oshkosh in 1998. He kept a detailed log with photos. It used to be available on the internet but a google search does not bring it up any more.

I remember a picture he posted of a Russian navigator with the ferry tank on his lap and pouring fuel into it from a plastic bottle.

I'm real interested in doing this flight - if only as far as Providnya Bay.

The Alaska Airmens Association page on the route says that no one has flown it since 2006, but that someone was going to try it this past summer (no word on whether that happened).

On flying beyond Providenya Bay in Russia, there are some signs that GA is becoming easier there - for example there was an old rule that even VFR you had to follow specific routes, and pay $1/km fee to do so (the country is 7000km wide!). Here's an article that describes the changes:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ation.html

I think that the russian-speaking rule is the biggest barrier to going beyond Providenya - you either need to learn russsion, find a russian-speaking friend to join you or hire a 'navigator'.

Several years ago, a married couple from washington attempted an around-the-world flight in their Supercub "Howdy". As I recall, they had fuel difficulties & it seems to me that it was in the region you're talking about transitting- siberia and/or the kamchatka Peninsula. There's a thread about around-the-world trip(s) on the supercub.org site entitled "trans-atlantic in cub?" -- there is some discussion about the attempted trip in Howdy as the current owner is a regular on that site.

I just found a ton of stuff to read on it:

http://www.earthrounders.com/index.html

I don't want to fly around the world, just Russia and maybe Japan. Imagine if light sport bush planes or amphibians ever caught on in Russia, wow. I would not be surprised to actually see a huge boom in general aviation there as laws become less restrictive and the people become more wealthy. I have read a bit of stuff on oil reserves in eastern Russia that make the north slope look insignificant. Combine that with the lack of roads, culture that like to hunt and fish, and places like Magadan might start building GA airports and Seaplane bases.

Wishful thinking I know, but everywhere we look, we only hear that the world is changing for the worse, I prefer to look for new and exciting opportunities in change rather than dwell on stuff like General Aviation disappearing because theres no more 100LL, or too many people afraid some guy in a super cub going to throw anthrax into the bleachers at a ball game.

Hey David.....great thread here! I've been reading with interest. No desire to make a trip like this myself, but I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

Do you have any links related to G.A. in Japan and Russia (mostly Japan)? Maybe I'm not trying hard, but I can't seem to find much. I'm guessing it's not cheap for your average Japanese income to be too involved with G.A. in Japan. Any G.A. airport info? Airliners.net has some photo's, but mostly of the big International airports.

Thanks Buddy!!

58Skylane wrote:Hey David.....great thread here! I've been reading with interest. No desire to make a trip like this myself, but I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

Do you have any links related to G.A. in Japan and Russia (mostly Japan)? Maybe I'm not trying hard, but I can't seem to find much. I'm guessing it's not cheap for your average Japanese income to be too involved with G.A. in Japan. Any G.A. airport info? Airliners.net has some photo's, but mostly of the big International airports.

Thanks Buddy!!

I only just started looking into this. The more I look the more it seams like it would not be all that hard to do. With the miracles of social networking like Facebook and Twitter, and since I have a lot of motorcycle friends around the world, If I went with an aircraft that runs on auto fuel (no ethanol anywhere except USA) I could probably arrange fuel to be brought to me at smaller airfields. Looking closely at google earth, there are several small fields in the northern part of Japan, but no aircraft or hangars visible. They must be just be small commuter terminals and I have not looked into Japanese GA regulations at all yet. This is still a "What if" idea and I am a long ways off of even preparing for it.

I was also wondering what the legalities of use an aircraft like the Sea-Rey would be. Would I be able to fuel up at marinas? A tail dragger Light Sport Amphibian would open up a lot of possibilities for this type of trip, or even just flying around the NW USA. I wonder if anyone has ever put bush wheels on one? There appears to be enough clearance when the wheels are retracted.

Here's a link to the "Madrid to Oshkosh in a Kitfox" article. Eaa Sport Aviation October, 1998. There are a couple pictures of the Russian Navigator included.
http://www.oshkosh365.org/saarchive/eaa ... _10_08.pdf

DavidB. wrote:I only just started looking into this. The more I look the more it seams like it would not be all that hard to do. With the miracles of social networking like Facebook and Twitter, and since I have a lot of motorcycle friends around the world, If I went with an aircraft that runs on auto fuel (no ethanol anywhere except USA) I could probably arrange fuel to be brought to me at smaller airfields. Looking closely at google earth, there are several small fields in the northern part of Japan, but no aircraft or hangars visible. They must be just be small commuter terminals and I have not looked into Japanese GA regulations at all yet. This is still a "What if" idea and I am a long ways off of even preparing for it.

If I were in your shoes, I would focus my research on Russia. Japan is a piece of cake by comparison. They even have AOPA (http://www.aopa.jp/english/english.htm). Although granted, I don't know how strong their community is.

To bootstrap googling, a GA airplane is called "小型飛行機", kogata hikouki. BTW, speaking of aircraft at Google maps, here's a link to Takikakwa where you can plainly see a towplane pulling a glider:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 6&t=h&z=18
Their website is http://www.takikawaskypark.jp/

Airfields like Takikawa are all over Japan. The lack of hangars is certainly puzzling, but you can definitely go IFR hop by hop. Russia is a different matter. I looked at Wiki briefly and the only airclub along the Pacific is Petropavlovsk-Elizovo (Петропавловск-Камчатский - Елизово). Here's their aviapages.ru URL:
http://www.aviapages.ru/airports/616081 ... 1488.shtml
It does not list airclub as a tennant, so they may be disbanded.

I suppose you could track down strips served by An-2, but even so it's rather iffy. They probably cluster around big hubs like Elizovo, with big gaps inbetween. And most likely even them fly IFR, just so the system is comfortable with them. Now if you were in a Pilatus and went IFR...

-- Pete