Folks:

I have to go the Vegas in late January. I was planning to drive, but it's a brutal, 32 hour trip from DC. I have a Piper Sport/Sportcruiser available to use and am wondering about the practicality of making the trip in it. My biggest concern, other than weather delays, is the published service ceiling is about 10,000 feet. While not the speediest thing in the sky, it does cut the time in half - about 16 hours each way. Due to the restrictions against flying an LSA at night, it'll probably still take three days, but three 5+ hour days flying beats three 10+ hours driving. Anyone think this is feasible? Can I get to Vegas at 10K? Am I nuts?

Best,
O-2

"Time to spare, go by air". Every time I have taken a trip in my airplane in the winter I end up worrying the whole time that the weather will deterioriate and I won't get home by the time I need to.

Just to clailify the rules. An LSA can be flow at night if it has the required night equipment. The pilot must be qualified for night flying. A pilot flying under Sport pilot rules cannot fly at night.

I suspect the service ceiling is more of a function of it being certified as an LSA. The old limits were 10,000 MSL and the new allow 10K or 2k AGL which ever is higher. Lets you fly over passes without busting the license restrictions. Plenty of LSA's make cross country trips to Oshkosh and Sun n Fun every year. Just takes a little more planning and a bit of luck. I would head S.W. and pick up I 40. Should keep you south of most fronts. Could be a fun adventure.

Something to keep in mind with older LSAs relating to early winter sunsets....
A daytime current PILOT can fly till one half hour after sunset.
A PLANE not night time capable (exterior lights) must be on the ground AT sun set.

I learned the difference after many years/flights of thinking I was legal in my Cub with no exterior lights til a half hour after sunset. I learned the difference at a safety seminar (fortunately).

The rule makes sense, and I observe it carefully now...
lc

Comment: It seems the POH figures for time/distance are anywhere from 10-25% more optimistic than my reality...
Anyhow, I plan plenty of "cushion" on long distance flights in very small/slow airplanes. That is without the common 'weather waiting', just headwinds and going around high traffic areas, airspace, etc

Also remember that service ceilings are specified at gross weight - keep it light and you should be able to get higher if needed. The further south you travel the lower you will need to be to cross the Rockies. But many LSAs around here fly in and cross the mountains.

If you want an adventure then go and just mitigate your risks. I don't find LSA by air a believable reason for avoiding a grueling car trip.

Unless you are used to flying 5 hours day after day in a LSA, this will be grueling by air, particularly if you are flying alone. Assuming you are flying back, you will rack up 50 hours of tach time; you need to make sure the plane is in top shape to handle the trip and your history with the plane should reassure you that it does usually go that amount of time without a problem.

Depending on the importance of being in Las Vegas, you have to plan that wherever you are, you could put down, protect everything and still get to Las Vegas at a cost you have the means to cough up.

I would plan on going south to manage altitude, I recommend sharing the experience in order to both fly longer and safer in good weather, and I would choose springtime rather than the dead of winter in order to see the country in bloom while the mountains still have snow.

Good luck, sounds like a great journey.

I'd do it! It would be a great adventure as long as you can keep an eye on the weather and act accordingly. I have a friend up here in Northern MN that flies his Remos LSA to AZ every winter and back to MN in the spring. He has only been flying a couple of years and only flies LSA.

I flew my PA-12 home from DC to Wyoming last February. Trip of a lifetime for me. When I landed in southwestern Wyoming after 21 total hours of flight time, I was still ready to tank up and keep heading all the way to the West coast.

If I was contemplating your trip, I would would strongly consider a southerly route to allow me to get over, through, or around the Rockies at a lower spot. Alternatively, you could head up through Wyoming and pick your way over the Continental Divide in my part of the country. You can do it at 10K, but you have to think carefully about where, how, and when. In either case, the cooler air of winter time is going to help your performance, but it will also necessitate more cold-weather survival gear in case you have to put it down. I would try to cross the rocks as early in the day as possible to minimize winds/downdrafts.

The biggest x-factor for me would be the time thing. I learned it is impossible to look at the 5 different weather systems between DC and Wyoming and predict how they are going to mix together with any certainty. I finally bit the bullet and decided it was going to take as long as it took. As I said, 21 hours total flying time for me, with two different one-day layovers due to weather. I felt very lucky to have hit the weather window I did--a week earlier or a week later and I could have experienced much longer regional delays.

I wouldn't trade my trip for anything but, as I said, the key for me was deciding it was going to take as long as it took. My two cents. YMMV.

What's wrong with airl;ining it? Probably way cheaper than driving or self-flying.

I would definitely do it. The 10,000' was probably the LS restriction which is not a problem since, as explained in a previous post, you can fly 2,000' AGL. I would guess that your plane has at least a 15000' capability. Have made the trip many times from Albuquerque in a light sport with no problem and flying over the Grand Canyon is unbelievable.

Arnold

hotrod150 wrote:What's wrong with airl;ining it? Probably way cheaper than driving or self-flying.

When the last TSA thug is jailed or back to flipping burgers, and the last surly airline employee fired, I'll consider setting foot on the big Greyhound in the sky again. Until then, I don't think I'm subservient enough for the airlines to be an option. As one of my favorite people, Judge Andrew Napolitano says, standing in a nude radiation scanner, raising one's hands on command, is no place for a free citizen (paraphrased since I don't recall the exact quote).

Best,
O-2

13000 feet amidst 13000 feet peaks using oxygen on a calm fall day in the Sierras - my plane's ceiling is 15000 feet and I think I was about 350 lbs under gross. Sure did not feel as if I were more than 2000 feet above the ground.

If you do the trip, stay south, maximize your performance and save your adrenaline. There will probably be more than enough places along the way to use it.

OscarDeuce wrote:Folks:

I have to go the Vegas in late January. I was planning to drive, but it's a brutal, 32 hour trip from DC. I have a Piper Sport/Sportcruiser available to use and am wondering about the practicality of making the trip in it. Am I nuts?

Why the hell not? As long as you don't HAVE to be anywhere at a certain day/time, make a good wander out of it. Between wx systems you'll have cool thick air and the best performance out of your airplane, and some pretty awesome scenery.

My co-worker from Yute Air who bought my C90 powered BC-12 T Cart on Edo 1320's, flew it from Sonoma County to Connecticut using a southern route, and turned left at the Atlantic coast. He had an absolute blast hopping from splash down to splash down, not really too worried about where or how far he got each day.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:

OscarDeuce wrote:Folks:

I have to go the Vegas in late January. I was planning to drive, but it's a brutal, 32 hour trip from DC. I have a Piper Sport/Sportcruiser available to use and am wondering about the practicality of making the trip in it. Am I nuts?

Why the hell not? As long as you don't HAVE to be anywhere at a certain day/time, make a good wander out of it. Between wx systems you'll have cool thick air and the best performance out of your airplane, and some pretty awesome scenery.

Gump

X2!!

I would pick up Route 66 out of Chicago and follow that all the way to Gallup, NM. Then start cutting slightly northwest from Gallup to Vegas over flying parts of the Grand Canyon if you can.

DO IT!!!! you only live once!

So far, I'm thinking this route would be great (Wx permitting). It will put you near the very south end of the big Rookies. I flight over the Ozarks would be very cool, too.
http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.64776628906892,-97.14111328424772&chart=301&zoom=10&plan=A.K6.KDCA:A.K2.KLVS:A.K2.KSAF:A.K2.E91:A.K2.T03:A.K2.KLAS

sounds like an adventure to me...aint no way im gonna drive in a car that far...i agree with Gump...pick ur days, get 3 or 4 in a row that look super VFR, start early and fly ur butt off till dark,and land....!

Thank everyone for the input! I'm leaning towards doing it. I do have to be there on a certain day/time. Can take my time coming back. Since I was going to allocate three days to driving, I'll do the same with flying. That way, if the weather goes stinky on me, I can always rent a car and drive the rest of the way to make my meeting.

A couple more airplane/pilot tidbits - 10K is listed in the airplane POH as the service ceiling but the rate of climb at that altitude under standard conditions at gross weight is something like 325 FPM. Anemic, but I recall the FAA definition of service ceiling is 150 FPM climb. Also, although the airplane is an LSA and I'm operating under the light sport rules (no current medical), I have 4,000+ hours, commercial, instrument (not current), multi, etc. Used to commute from Dallas to Atlanta and DC in a Mooney 231 and Cessna 421, so while I've never flown west of Abaline, TX, I was once somewhat used to making long X/C.

Best,
O-2

......I was once somewhat used to making long X/C.

From someone to whom a fast plane is a 182.....
(most of my time is in Cubs & 150s)

Here is a profundity:
"The slower you go....
The longer the X/C!"

It'll make more sense WHEN you go on your trip!
lc

Edited to say closer to what I meant

Littlecub wrote:

......I was once somewhat used to making long X/C.

From someone to whom a fast plane is a 182.....
(most of my time is in Cubs & 150s)

Here is a profundity:
"The slower you go....
The longer the X/C!"

It'll make more sense to you on your trip!
lc

True, but having driven through west Texas....

best,
O-2