Geez! Had a pretty good scare last Sunday. After landing 7-10 times on pretty tough short airstrips, I headed back to my home airport and had an epic botched landing in my Maule. Long final, no wind, as soon as wheels hit the runway, it went 30 degrees to the left, then 45 to the right. Fortunately, I was able to put it between the lights (went full throttle). Got it straight and back into the air (in the grass next to the runway) then went around and landed fine.

I've got over 500 landings in this thing. Frustrating, to say the least. I'm sure I was doing something wrong, I've racked my brain and can't figure it out...

Did you have the brake on accidently. I wear light duty shoes and make sure my feet are low on the pedals.

180Marty wrote:
Did you have the brake on accidently. I wear light duty shoes and make sure my feet are low on the pedals.

Funny you say that, when I first started my TW endorsement I went abruptly to the right just about the time I was to rotate, got bad real fast. Afterward all we could figure was I must have hit the brake, and I was wearing my big Danner hunting boots. Tennis shoe from then on, and keep those feet low.

Marty

If not the shoes, maybe a little fast? Denver is exceptionally cold now so it shouldn't have been a higher density altitude than you are used to. Do you verify brakes are off as part of your landing mantra? Glad it was only a scare for you. Amount of landings didn't matter for me; I've got more than 1500 in my Maule that I've flown from Georgia to Mexico to Montana to the Artic Ocean and I like to play in the Sierras, and my plane is down for repairs from a botched landing in Bishop: I was too slow applying power to get my ass out of trouble.

It happens. Usually when tired, too fast, inattentive, not putting center line between legs, using aileron, not trying to move the nose a little left, right, left, etc. with rudder. If we are not dynamically, proactively moving the longitudinal axis both sides of just right, Murphy is waiting. Murphy will bite. A crosswind, to keep our attention, will actually help prevent this.

At a certain point of confidence, confidence is good, we may get complacent. A solution to this is to return to an earlier point in our experience when we used gross rather than fine motor skills. Exaggerate walking the rudder dynamically. We are more likely ahead of the airplane when we use greater rudder movement, even though this looks less professional. Remember when you first learned to ride a bike. When you were pretty sure you could keep it perfectly upright without wobbling, you took a pretty good spill.

After landing 7-10 times on pretty tough short airstrips, I headed back to my home airport

Just a thought...

Tough, short airstrips... I'm betting focused, reading weight transfer and shift through the seat of your pants, paying real close attention.

Home airport... Not so focused, familiar ground, done it a zillion times, ass numbed up. All of a sudden, LOOK SQUIRREL!!!

Ooops.

Not that I've ever done that.

Gump

Hey, could it have been a frozen left brake? Maybe picked up some water off the other strips? Glad things turned out okay!

Me thinks gumpair has it pegged. As much as I'd love to say it was a stuck brake or something else mechanical, the truth is it was most likely good old fashion pilot error. Complacency is a killer, for sure! Lesson learned, and I'm glad it's one I walked away from.

I did, however, pull up to my hangar and wonder if there should be a nose-dragged in my future...

I'm not all that experienced, but had something very similar happen. Family was going for a trip from Alabama to Florida. While I was waiting for my wife to arrive, I did some practice at an adjacent grass strip. Family arrived and we launched for Florida. At 10,500 feet over Cross City, my daughter announces, "DADDY, MY PEE-PEE'S COMING OUT!" We descended for Cross City and I was thinking about everything but the landing. No wind, long runway, and the Skywagon told me it wanted to go right. I could feel that I was on the edge of locking the brakes trying to correct, so I picked a spot between lights and went offroading. It is obvious, in retrospect, that I was just inattentive to my 180's needy rudder pedals. No harm was done and I learned a great lesson. Coincidentally, the path I took off the side of the runway was a shortcut to the FBO. The 8.50s didn't care whether I meant to be offroad, they were just relieved to be there.

Brett

Just another thought: It could be we instructors put false ideas into your head. One false idea is that you should put the nose over the center line. The truth is you should have the center line between your legs, in your Maule. If you had the nose on the center line, you would have been at a slight angle to the runway. This could have been made worse. If you noticed that you were going right and assumed a left crosswind and put the left wing down, (with no crosswind) it would have jumped left on touchdown.

The other common false teaching is that there is a perfect place for any control or even for the nose on touchdown. There is not. For helicopter pilots, there is no "hover button." The rudder needs to be moving left, right, left, right continuously. It does not matter how much, so long as it is dynamic and proactive. You are behind if it is static and reactive. The hover button will make you static and reactive. There is no right position, only wrong on each side of perfect.

In my last two aircraft are side-by-side, with the Tundra being considerably wider making the pilot further from the center of the aircraft. I did have to make an adjustment when landing on narrow roads. I had to put the sight line in front of me, or between my legs as contactflying describes. I did this because as the tail dropped and the nose came up, I was unable to see over it anyway. I would lose sight of my reference point until I leaned left a bit and shifted my look out the left side of the windshield along the cowling. Sighting along that cowling down the shoulder of the road let me have an uninterrupted look to a reference point further ahead so I started landing at airports then with the centerline next to the left wheel for the same reason and then would not have to make such a large movement left to get a new sight line along the side. I have been doing something similar without having thought much about it.

The most extreme example of the side by side problem was the CH-47 "Shithook." If you used the nose to line up with the runway in auto-rotation, you were at a 45% angle to the runway. Stearman sprayers were OK, because you were in the center. The 30% sight picture on each side of the four inch steel lip on the hopper (where the front seat should be) was tricky on takeoff and landing and in the crop field. I asked the old guys how you kept from hitting something in the field? "You look in the turn," was their answer.

Glad it turned out okay.

A few years back Reno Chick and I flew into Bryant Field (Bridgeport, CA http://www.airnav.com/airport/O57) for breakfast. Cool, beautiful morning. Not a breath of wind. There was no one on the ramp watching, so of course I made a tires kiss the pavement wheel landing that was short and zen-like perfect.

Then...

I usually don't use much conscious thought on landings, I just push, pull, step left-right to make shit kinda go where I want them. But this time, for whatever reason, I had relaxed way too much by how smooth and thick the air was, I just put my head inside the airplane and quit doing that pilot stuff.

Holy Shit!

My ass shifted in my seat, and I woke up to see the world wanting to spin to the left and my airplane try to do motocross in the grass. I was only doing about 15 MPH, so I stomped it back to normal, but it proved once again that if you don't fly to the chocks, Mother Nature is gonna bite you in the butt.

Gump

It happens. No need to give up and go nosedragger.

I couple years ago returning from JC on a hot and very smokey day in southern Oregon, I went booney crashing at KMFR. There wasn't even really any wind to speak of. I was tired and fatigued and just ready to go swimming.

As soon as it pointed, I kinda thought to myself "If you fight it too hard, you could do a proper groundloop and do some damage, so just thread it between the lights." So I took the high speed taxiway through the dirt and weeds, and turned onto the real taxiway. All the guys in the tower said was "Cessna 60C, say parking." I know they were up there rolling there eyes or waiting to see two guys hop out smoking blunts or swatting at bees.

Last year heading to Northern Idaho I landed at John Day for fuel and to use their beautiful facilities. I was happy and a little too relaxed. On short final, I was looking at the grass next to the runway thinking "That looks pretty smooth. Wonder if it's usable?" Sure enough, on rollout I got to find out, as I let myself get distracted and was surprised by a puff of crosswind (that's my story anyway), finding myself heading for said grass. Like Zane, I figured since I got myself in this predicament, I'd just let her go into the grass a bit, which is her natural habitat anyway.

After a short sojourn into the weeds I was back on the pavement. My son in the right seat didn't even notice. I guess he's used to my landings.

Did you have the brake on accidentally. I wear light duty shoes and make sure my feet are low on the pedals.

Now your boots can f**k you up. Over time up in the vast Arctic wastelands, I think I tried every cold weather boot out there. I finally ended up using, and loving, the Cabella's Trans Alaska II Pacs. Rated to 100+ below, and I wore 'em down to minus 60. Never once had cold feet in 'em, nor were my feet ever damp. Just the boots and a light pair of socks.

But... The things made ya look like Frankenstein, with soles about 3" thick, and a huge amount of insulation all around. It was a wee bit of a learning curve every fall transitioning from T shoes or light boots to the Pacs. Those rudder pedals and the brakes were always three inches away from your feet, and it took some practice (and squealing tires from locked up brakes) to get a feel for things. And, by the end of winter, and it's a long winter up there, it was a non-event.



Gump

I'll share a little more of my experiences. I soloed 3 times before finally getting my licence----all by the same instructor from 1972 till 1980. First time in a PA 16, second time a 90 horse PA 18 and finally a PA 12. After over 600 hours I traded the 12 for the 180. With the same instructor I was to get 5 hours of dual so we went up and stalled, slow flight, and then came down here to Paullina that has a 30 foot wide runway. I was kind of scared of the 180 after hearing all the stories but my first landing was a perfect stall. The instructor told a friend he wondered what we were going to do for 5 hrs. Anyway, I'm thinking that wasn't to hard so came around for the second landing and ran off the runway. Third time ran off the runway so the instructor suggested we quit and try tomorrow. Next day ran off the runway several times and we decided we better try again tomorrow. That night I had a serious talk with myself and the third day I was turned loose. After flying it awhile I gave my mom a ride. She had ridden with my dad some but not a lot. When I came in to land we made an immediate left turn that I corrected and rolled out nicely. Mom says " couldn't you tell we were landing crooked?" I said no but had been lining up with the center of the cowl while sitting in the left seat. That's pretty bad when your mom can tell more about what was going on than I did.

Oh Marty you got told by yo momma. Hahaha.

Seriously though, that's the most likely culprit in my experience. Directional alignment at touchdown kinda sets the stage for what's gonna happen. If your site view is a little askew it can be hard to tell you're out of alignment, and that cockeyed touchdown can bring the weeds into view in an instant. Maybe complacency can contribute to that.

Back when I always wore helmet, nomex, Army boots, etc. I almost ran over the owner of a Petenpol. He wanted me to go around the patch before I flew with him. My toe got stuck on some plywood down it the hole for my right foot. I pushed through and got it straight. Tore the leather off the toe of my right boot.