I've finished the work on restoring the U206 over here in Ireland. We are fast taxiing shall we say, while we wait on the paperwork to be complete

I wanted to fly 35hrs in it before upgrading the avionics. Oil changes at 10hrs and 25hrs so we can spend the money we have put aside on avionics and not any unforeseen issues with the engine etc. My plan is once the run in flying is done, to strip out the old looms in so far as is possible and lay in the new avionics.

What we have right now installed:

Garmin GMA340
Narco 12D
TKM MX300
Cessna 300 ADF
King KT76

In our hangar, we have a GNS430 (non waas), Aera 660 with Airgizmo mount, G106A CDI sitting on hand. We would like to try use these if possible. The things we think it ought to have:

Dual G5's
ADSB In/Out
Engine Monitor
USB power

We only really plan to be going from VFR grass strips, we don't have any WAAS/LPV approaches here. We are happy to leave out ADF/DME. The aircraft will do 80% of it's hours during Summer/Daylight hours. What would you expect to see fitted in a nice 206 to maximise the appeal if we ever do decide to sell it? The hot market for these is in the US not Europe, so we want to think ahead in case we do send it over. We didn't start the project to sell it but are thinking ahead. We can probably put $20k into it, along with what we have on hand to use/sell.

Cheers!

William

You can't go wrong with dual G5s and an engine monitor, and it won't break the bank. A tso'd usb is not cheap but is not a big number in these matters. All of them will add functionality and value to the airplane, not to say that an engine monitor is almost a safety device.

Personally I went with the jpi edm830, gma345, cies fuel senders along aerospace logic indicator and bas harnesses for my TU206G. We don't have too many lvp approaches around either (only RnavAr's at bigger airports) so I am thinking about the Gnx375 but I really don't need the capability, yet. G5s, Aspen or Ki300 might come when my gyros decide to abandon me.

Go full garmin. It looks cleaner than mix and match brands, and everything generally interfaces well and resale is better. Remembering this is a 206 and not an uber lightweight C150, I'd go:

2 G5's + ASI, VSI, ALT, TC
GNS430 you have (too bad it's not W)
GTR225 for second comm
GTX345 for ADS B in/out. Or 335 if you don't care about in and want to save $$.
EDM900 or 930 depending on budget.
GMA340 you have

This makes the 430 the weak point in the system but it can be upgraded later or when resold. The lack of Waas is a bummer, that makes things easier.

The only way it gets to be a cleaner/capable-r panel than that is by going with a G500/600 PFD instead of the 6pack/G5s.

I am planning a similar avionics upgrade as well. Although I'm new to all this, I have spent a lot of time researching this subject, so I will share a couple thoughts. I think garmin is the way to go especially if autopilot integration is ever in the cards, which with a 206 it very well could be to a lot of the market. The 430 can be upgraded to waas for about $2k if I'm not mistaken. In my mind, that's a huge value add. Also it allows you to use a GTX 335/345 without an internal GPS since the transponder gets it signal from the GNS. This saves you about $800 and deals with ads-b which is also a value add in the US market. I would keep the existing audio panel. With dual G5s you can sell the gi106 and replace with a G5 HSI. For a second comm you can also find used sl40s pretty cheap (<$1000) if you don't want to fork over $2k+ for a new digital comm 2. They also save some space. For engine monitors I think the most value is recognized with all in one units like the ei mvp 50, Jpi edm 900/930 or ei cgr-p (the version with 2 screens - not sure of the exact model). Garmin also now makes usb plugs as well.

I've had this same basic install quoted from numerous places and I'm basically between $30-35k here in the states, although I've gotten quotes as high as $50k. My setup is going to be a 530w, comm only #2 radio, dual G5s, a new GMA 345 audio panel, Gtx 345 transponder, Jpi 900 monitor, 2 usb plugs, panel mounted iPad, all new switches/breakers along with a new powder coated panel. I would be providing two radios and that's it. I also have an area 660 I may incorporate in lieu of the iPad, just not sure on that yet as I'm a foreflight user and the iPad is easier for that.

When I started down this rabbit hole, I was pleasantly surprised at how reasonably one can do a fairly functional panel upgrade if you don't mind scrounging parts and going without the newest new gadgets.

[presuming continued Ireland ops]
Since Irish Aviation Authority is a partner in https://aireon.com/company/, suggest checking with IAA to determine if a Transponder Diversity Antenna requirement is anticipated in the foreseeable future. Garmin does offer same as an option.

Nushi wrote:The 430 can be upgraded to waas for about $2k if I'm not mistaken. In my mind, that's a huge value add.

I have a spare GNS 430 and agree it would be worthwhile at $2K but Garmin’s website list the conversion at $4,495. Is there someone else doing the conversions?

Thanks

What are you really going to use this airplane for? VFR? IFR? The avionics are mission specific.

For my mission, long flights VFR, seldom if ever IFR: Starting out with six pack, King KMA 20 audio panel, dual KY 97 coms, Garmin GPS 150, KNS 80 RNAV, KR 87 ADF, JPI 930 engine management, my plans are as follows:

Yes on the transponder diversity option. No on ADS-B “in” unless you’ll be in the USA. A GTX 330D ES might be a good option. Right now it tops my list for a Canadian registered airplane rarely flown into the USA. A GDL 39 will feed up link data to my iPad and 796 portable when I want it. Mostly it will display other ADS-B aircraft in Canada.

If you’re ever going to install an autopilot, GFC 500 by Garmin is it. Not certified for the 206 yet, but I’m sure it’s coming. Put in a G5 now with the magnetometer and temperature probe options. Two is nice, but one is enough. I’ll go with the GFC 500. Pitch and roll only. Trim isn’t available. Yaw dampener might be nice, but not willing to spend the money, or the weight in the tail.

If I had a GNS 430W in my airplane now I’d leave it. If I had a 430 non Waas I’d replace it with a GPS 175 or a GNC 355. Not a GNS 375 because it doesn’t offer diversity. If I had a 430 or 430W on the shelf, I’d sell it and get a GNC 355. Waas is needed to support my choice of the GTX 330D ES transponder.

I’d buy a Garmin audio panel to ensure all the audio notifications from all the devices are heard.

I’m a ForeFlight user and wish it was compatible with the 175 and 355 but it’s not, so I would need to switch to Garmin Pilot. GP will talk to the 175 or 355. The iPad ranks on the copilot side yoke for now. I also have a 796 portable that will ride along on the pilot side yoke until the iPad becomes my user interface to a panel mount GPS.

I had in mind that I’d choose a GTN 650 GPS, but I think Garmin has an improved GPS nav com in the works. I’ve also decided that I’ll seldom use a VOR, localizer, or glide-slope in the future. For now, my KNS 80 will do. When it bites the dust, I’ll replace it and one KY 97 with a nav/com.

That’s my minimalist IFR panel on a budget. Just food for thought for others, as your mission, and your current equipment most likely vary.

Part NCO only requires IFR GNSS and a second needle for typically a VOR. The 430 satisfies the 8.33 requirement and the enroute IFR in Class A. You also need a Mode S for light IFR.

The 12D or the other NAV/COM give you the VOR, and hopefully ILS, plus emergency COM. The ADF is obsolete unless you plan to fly NDB approaches.

A cigar lighter USB adapter gives you the USB.

In short money spent on avionics is not easily recoverable, so keep it simple. A new owner would have his/her agenda on avionics.

But William you probably knew that already.

I want to expand on why I wouldn’t spend too much toward a GNS 430. They don’t provide vertical guidance on LPV approaches, so you miss out on some of the functionality of the flight director in the G5, and the ability of the GFC 500 autopilot to couple to the vertical guidance.

There is even vertical guidance available for joining patterns and making visual approaches in the 650, 750, 175, 355, 375.

PawsOn wrote:

Nushi wrote:The 430 can be upgraded to waas for about $2k if I'm not mistaken. In my mind, that's a huge value add.

I have a spare GNS 430 and agree it would be worthwhile at $2K but Garmin’s website list the conversion at $4,495. Is there someone else doing the conversions?

Thanks

So about a month or so ago I saw ads on barnstormers and ebay for waas upgrades for $2k +/- and now I can't find them. I never called any of them since the 530 I have already has waas enabled. Plus in looking at waas vs. non-waas units, the margin between the two is often right about $2k so there was no value added for me to buy a non-waas unit and convert it. Who knows, the cheap upgrades could have just been a scam.

Pinecone wrote:I want to expand on why I wouldn’t spend too much toward a GNS 430. They don’t provide vertical guidance on LPV approaches, so you miss out on some of the functionality of the flight director in the G5, and the ability of the GFC 500 autopilot to couple to the vertical guidance.

There is even vertical guidance available for joining patterns and making visual approaches in the 650, 750, 175, 355, 375.

You make an interesting point about the lack of vertical guidance on with a GNS 430. I have been trying to wrap my head around all the approach types but from what I gather, the waas capability is what allows for vertical guidance on all the RNAV approach types. With WAAS, shouldn't a 430W or 530W be able to incorporate vertical guidance and therefore be able to utilize LPV or LNAV/VNAV approaches? Forgive the me for the novice sidetrack here. I'm learning all this stuff and I want to make sure I'm not missing it before I dump money into a new panel.

CORRECTION TO MY ERROR IN PREVIOUS POST.

Nushi, I believe you are correct. I’m not IFR rated and am trying to research my way through this as well.

I had to go re-read my source to improve my facts and understanding.

The 430W and 530W will display all needed guidance for LPV approaches. So will the 175, 355, 375.

What they won’t do, and what only the GTN 650, 750 will do is provide VNav between waypoints on a flight plan. The VNav is desirable to feed the full capability of the GFC 500 autopilot to manage transition from cruise altitude to the start of an IFR approach.

I also read that if a G3X is included in the panel, typically replacing one of a pair of G5’s, you can use the simple coupled VNAV capability built-into that system with GPS 175, GNC 355, GNX 375, and even GNS 4XX(W)/5XX(W) navigators to fly coupled VNAV descents from cruise altitude to pattern altitude (3 nm out). Presumably, you could also do this when aiming for a specific altitude at the first waypoint of an approach, but I’m not sure how much workload this really sheds.

Hope I’m not taking the OP question too far. Very unusual to discuss avionics in this depth on Backcountry pilot forum.

Yes really interesting the lvp thing. As said, depends on the mission. For Usa it seems LVPs are becoming bread and butter whereas in Chile you seldom see one, mostly Lnav/Vnav with minimas as high as Vors. And then almost all those airports have ils, and mee too will rarely be flying real ifr in this mountain area in my single engine.

Chile is about to switch to Mode S transponder next year so a Gnx375 will be an overkill for me too, a used Gtx330 will do for now. Again, depends on mission and country requirements. I am dreaming about a G3X but it is a hard feeling to shake that I'd pay lots of money for pretty much the same stuff I already have on Garmin Pilot + my Gdl50 right now. Money can start flying into the blue pretty quickly.

Gfc500 is tempting, but is not available for us 206s yet. Maybe a wise option is to stick with what you have for as long as you can. Competition is fierce and products are being permanently developed at a pace like never seen before. Really want a 430W? Next year they'll be cheaper, for sure. Want a Gps175? Next year a new model better tailored for your budget or needs might pop up.

I'm still planning and scratching my head though, ain't going to lie.

deleted

Thanks for all the replies, I had forgotten to come back and check on the post. We sold the 430 and 106 and are going to put the money towards a 650. What we settled on:

Garmin GMA340
Garmin GTN650 with Flightsteam 210
Garmin Aera 660 in AirGizmo Dock
King KN62
Garmin GTX345
Insight G4
Stratus USB Power
Garmin Dual G5

I'm now hunting down some US-based Garmin dealers who will supply avionics to a certified aircraft, with a premade loom. Lots of Avionics dealers didn't even reply to my mail. The items in italics we already have....

GTX 345D would be advisable given you are in Europe. You’ll need dual transponder antennae at some point.

Pinecone wrote:GTX 345D would be advisable given you are in Europe. You’ll need dual transponder antennae at some point.

What's the logic in getting the 345D? http://www.chiefaircraft.com/gmn-010-01775-01.html

It's $8000 vs the regular 345 is $4500..... Give us the short scoop on what it does for me

Over here in Europe we just got our heads around Mode S, then that turned into ADSB Out, then folks started thinking of ADSB In and now this new one Diversity ....

Europe has bought in on the Aireon Satellite based ADS-B. System. It requires a top mounted antennae, but you need a bottom antennae for ground based radar. Two antennae equals diversity. Talk to your avionics guys to confirm, but I believe this to be correct. The USA will be the only folks using ground based ADS-B after the rest of the world implements the Aireon system. I don’t think a GTX 345 has any use in Europe.

Pinecone wrote:Europe has bought in on the Aireon Satellite based ADS-B. System. It requires a top mounted antennae, but you need a bottom antennae for ground based radar. Two antennae equals diversity. Talk to your avionics guys to confirm, but I believe this to be correct. The USA will be the only folks using ground based ADS-B after the rest of the world implements the Aireon system. I don’t think a GTX 345 has any use in Europe.

I believe you are right. Not much use in Canada either.

Pinecone wrote:Europe has bought in on the Aireon Satellite based ADS-B. System. It requires a top mounted antennae, but you need a bottom antennae for ground based radar. Two antennae equals diversity. Talk to your avionics guys to confirm, but I believe this to be correct. The USA will be the only folks using ground based ADS-B after the rest of the world implements the Aireon system. I don’t think a GTX 345 has any use in Europe.

I thought I'd covered all the bases before deciding to have the 375 installed in my U206F last summer, but I missed the diversity problem. I wrote to Garmin and they say the 375 doesn't support diversity antennas and there is no plan to add that capability. Great. So to be legal flying through Canada, I'll have to spend more money on a different device. It won't be a Garmin if I can avoid it.

CAVU

irishc180 wrote:Thanks for all the replies, I had forgotten to come back and check on the post. We sold the 430 and 106 and are going to put the money towards a 650. What we settled on:

Garmin GMA340
Garmin GTN650 with Flightsteam 210
Garmin Aera 660 in AirGizmo Dock
King KN62
Garmin GTX345
Insight G4
Stratus USB Power
Garmin Dual G5

I'm now hunting down some US-based Garmin dealers who will supply avionics to a certified aircraft, with a premade loom. Lots of Avionics dealers didn't even reply to my mail. The items in italics we already have....

FYI

Pulled my Garmin 340 Audio panel out and put in a PS Engineering in. They have the most advanced audio technology and it is good to spread your dollars.

Tim