Thanks Mike
Gary

winger wrote:Operations handbook (or owners manual) ?
I don't think so

"Operating limitations"

Have to disagree. Owner's manual.

The AROW is required for all aircraft. Operating limitations are required in addition for experimental aircraft.

This manual will talk about standard operating procedures and should be more or less modeled after what you get with simple factory aircraft.

I'm willing to be wrong but I think that's the story.

For experimental aircraft:

PAPERWORK SENT FROM FAA WITH REGISTRATION AND YOUR AIRWORTHINESS

An "approved" flight manual is one that the FAA reviewed and approved for publication and use. Recently certified aircraft have those AFMs that are serial-number unique to a specific airplane. Before that, a standardized POH was required to be supplied by the manufacturer. But even prior to that, the official "approved" documents were all over the place. My 1965 Champion 7ECA, for instance, was certified under CAR 4a, and has no POH, no Operator's Manual, no pilot reference material of any kind, beyond the actual "Operating Limitations" (a roughly 4"x6" piece of paper) document. The manufacturer (Champion Aircraft) literally supplied no pilot reference material of any kind beyond that little card. So if that card is on board, I meet the "O" standard of ARROW.

As for "Experimental" aircraft, here's the EAA answer to the question "What documents do I need to carry in my homebuilt? Do any need to be displayed?"

You must carry the following documents in your amateur-built aircraft:

Airworthiness Certificate
Certificate of Aircraft Registration
Operating Limitations
Weight and Balance Data

The only document that needs to be displayed is the airworthiness certificate. This is required by 14 CFR 91.203(b), which states:

”(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft unless the airworthiness certificate required by paragraph (a) of this section or a special flight authorization issued under § 91.715 is displayed at the cabin or cockpit entrance so that it is legible to passengers or crew.”

Note that there is no requirement that the airworthiness certificate be visible from the outside. Only that it is legible to passengers or crew.

The operating limitations, weight and balance info, and registration certificate must be carried aboard the aircraft, but do not need to be displayed.

For international operations (other than Canada), you will also need an aircraft radio station license. This can be obtained from the Federal Communications Commission (FCC)

The "operating limitations" for my 1953 C180 is the Approved Flight Manual, issued by the factory specifically for that airplane as identified by tail number.

As JP256 pointed out, the term “operating limitations” can consist of many things. Until the 1970s, there was no “standardized” requirement for new aircraft to meet this regulation.

Many early Aircraft meet the “operating limitations” requirement without ANY dicuments aboard which spell out operating limitations. They meet the requirement via installation of required placards.

And, while hotrod’s early 180 came with an “Approved flight manual”, the FAA required “operating limitations” for that airplane also include required placards and markings.

Later airplanes “Pilot Operating Handbook” generally include both the “Airplane Flight Manual” material, reference to required markings and placards, as well as other “useful” but not required information.

But EVERY airplane registered in the US must have its operating limitations carried on board at all times when in flight. Including experimental aircraft. Those limitations may simply consist of placards, or they may consist of a four inch thick book.

The Type Certificate Data Sheet for a certificate Aircraft will tell you what operating limitations are required. For an experimental aircraft, the operating limitations will be spelled out by the certification authority when it’s airworthiness certificate is issued.

Here is a link to the pertinent chapter from the FAA textbook: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policie ... ak_ch9.pdf

But note that this only describes current manufactured aircraft, built since 1975. Airplanes built prior to that year met the requirements by a variety of methods.

It’s really pretty simple, if you don’t confuse your terms with the FAA’s terms.

MTV

Here in Canada, we were always taught the acronym ARROWILLI


A - Cert. of Airworthiness
R - Cert. of Registration
R - Radio License
O - Operating Handbook
W - Weight & Balance
I - Intercept instructions
L - Log book - Journey Log
L - Pilot's License & Log book
I - Insurance documents

One of the things that stuck with me....

shortfielder I have to admit I'm amazed there have already been 26 responses to your simple question and EVERYONE got the answer wrong!

I've been ramped twice in the SQ2, once when flying it in an airshow at Alliance in Fort Worth, and the second time at Soldotna. So I can definitively tell you the answer. Part of it depends if you are in the United States or if you are in Alaska.

If you are in the United States the only thing you need are 35" tires. The guy who ramped me at the airshow was so amazed at the 35's that we talked about nothing else. I do think it helped that one of my fellow demo pilots airplane's registration had expired months earlier. Always good to have a distraction or misdirection while being ramped.

If you are in Alaska 35" tires won't help, they are everywhere, you can't walk down the street without tripping over a set. I found that up here in order to be ramped successfully, from the experimental aircraft pilot's point of view, all you need is a legacy certificated aircraft getting ramped in front of you. When the FAA guy does finally get to you he will be very excited knowing that there will be all kinds on unapproved things on your airplane, right up to the time when he realizes your plane is experimental. At which point you'll see his broad smile turn into a sad frown as his shoulders sag and he says (in a tone of disappointment) "Experimental huh?". The next question is likely to be "so what engine do you have in it?" or "how do you like those slats?".

There you have it shortfielder, finally the answer you've been looking for. Glad I could help.

Thanks Mr. Wizzard(Phil)
Glad ya finally got here.
Gary

Barnstormer wrote:shortfielder I have to admit I'm amazed there have already been 26 responses to your simple question and EVERYONE got the answer wrong!

I've been ramped twice in the SQ2, once when flying it in an airshow at Alliance in Fort Worth, and the second time at Soldotna. So I can definitively tell you the answer. Part of it depends if you are in the United States or if you are in Alaska.

If you are in the United States the only thing you need are 35" tires. The guy who ramped me at the airshow was so amazed at the 35's that we talked about nothing else. I do think it helped that one of my fellow demo pilots airplane's registration had expired months earlier. Always good to have a distraction or misdirection while being ramped.

If you are in Alaska 35" tires won't help, they are everywhere, you can't walk down the street without tripping over a set. I found that up here in order to be ramped successfully, from the experimental aircraft pilot's point of view, all you need is a legacy certificated aircraft getting ramped in front of you. When the FAA guy does finally get to you he will be very excited knowing that there will be all kinds on unapproved things on your airplane, right up to the time when he realizes your plane is experimental. At which point you'll see his broad smile turn into a sad frown as his shoulders sag and he says (in a tone of disappointment) "Experimental huh?". The next question is likely to be "so what engine do you have in it?" or "how do you like those slats?".

There you have it shortfielder, finally the answer you've been looking for. Glad I could help.

I think you nailed it, Phil.....

Reminds me of one summer when I was getting ramp check a few times a week.....couldnt figure out what the hey?? So, I called the FSDO Chief, who was a friendly, and asked him what I’d done wrong to attract all this attention.

He groaned, and explained that the Flight Standards Division had come down on high with a requirement that all Inspectors would be evaluated in part by the number of compliance checks they completed each quarter.

Since I was a gubmint guy, flying a gubmint airplane, operated as a “Public Aircraft”, I was essentially a no fault gig for a ramp check.....it was a “counter”, but in the event they actually found something, they couldn’t do anything about it anyway, including file a report. So, damping me was a no risk, no fault deal.....but it counted.

The Chief said he’d have a word with his guys. I told him no sweat if they needed to fill a square, with one condition: If I needed to get moving, I’d point that out to the Inspector, and he would move on. The boss agreed, and after that I was only ramped maybe once a week. Actually wasn’t a bad deal, cause the Inspectors were almost always genial and sometimes they even brought me a cup of coffee and a donut as a bribe.

Fortunately, the guidance from on high changed that fall, so I rarely was ramped after that....except for Eric, of course....but that’s another story.

MTV

Dude that did our inspection was FAA fed. He said carry AW certificate, registration, and operating limitations which is about 3 pages of typewritten stuff he gave me that I haven't looked at since. Weight and balance for our bird is in the AFS5800 MFD.