Just learned about the DA40 and how it is a motorglider.

What license do you need to fly one? A Sport License? A Private Pilot Glider license?

DA-40 isn't a motorglider. You need a Private Pilot license to fly it. 180hp 4 seat fixed gear airplane.

So, maybe it's a DA-20 I'm thinking about. I thought one of them bent the rules a bit and didn't require a Medical.

This is one of the DA-40s I fly at work...


Here's the hangar full of them...


The panel...

crowned wrote:So, maybe it's a DA-20 I'm thinking about. I thought one of them bent the rules a bit and didn't require a Medical.

Nope, they are not either. I have 49 each DA-20's here at work. 125hp fuel injected airplane... There are some other models out there with 100hp, but they still require PPL. None are LSA.

This is Diamond's motorglider, http://www.diamond-air.at/hk36_super_di ... 73ab0.html

I can't speak for requirements to fly it.

I have 120hrs in DA20s and another 20 or so in DA40's. You need PPL - they are not LSA compliant - too heavy.

The HK36 Super Dimona is flown as a motor glider - in the US I think they are called Katana X-tremes (goddamned skateboarders are everywhere!)

I'm not a glider pilot - but I know you have to have a glider rating on your pilot certificate - and you don't need a 3rd class medical to get a glider rating. And self-launching motor-gliders also require special training and endorsement on your license over and above the normal glider rating.

http://www.soaringsafety.org/ssf-06/MG-certs.pdf

These guys can probably tell you all about them - they have one for sale:

http://www.skykingsoaring.com/motorglider.html

'soyAnarchisto

Tadpole, are those Diamonds military trainers, or part of a flying club op? I had heard that there are no piston powered military trainers anymore, the smallest is a Beechcraft turbine.

I believe the OP may be thinking of a HK36 Super Dimona motor glider. Sometimes referred to as a Katana in the United States. I had a ride in one on Maui a year ago. Don't recall what it takes to command one, but it sure is a fun ship. 100 HP Rotax, and an MT prop with electrically-actuated pitch. I got a little stick time. Really twitchy on the controls compared to small Cessnas I've flown, and lively on landing. 53' wing span, speed brakes, about 3GPH when the engine's turning. Highly recommended.

-DP

hotrod150 wrote:Tadpole, are those Diamonds military trainers, or part of a flying club op? I had heard that there are no piston powered military trainers anymore, the smallest is a Beechcraft turbine.

The air force academy has a huge fleet of them. I'm not in the miltary, but I see cadets coming up to our school occasionally to supplement their training in our DA20s - so I know for a fact that they do their primary training in them.

'soyAnarchisto

hotrod150 wrote:Tadpole, are those Diamonds military trainers, or part of a flying club op? I had heard that there are no piston powered military trainers anymore, the smallest is a Beechcraft turbine.

They are military trainers, but not owned by the military. They are owned by the company I work for.

soyAnarchisto wrote:The air force academy has a huge fleet of them. I'm not in the miltary, but I see cadets coming up to our school occasionally to supplement their training in our DA20s - so I know for a fact that they do their primary training in them.

Not anymore. The AF Academy hasn't had DA-20s in over 6 years. Even then, they were not owned by the USAF. Thats about the time the contract I'm on started with DA-20s in Pueblo for the USAF. Then at the AF Academy we had DA-40s for a couple years, again, not military, but owned by my company. The AF decided they wanted more than the DA-40 and just bought a bunch of Cirrus. Those are actually owned by the USAF and used at the Academy.

I was stationed at the AF Academy in June 2004 and retired from there March 2011, left for a few months and came back and work for the company that holds the aircraft contracts here. We have the Screening program in Pueblo with 49 DA-20s and full facilities, we have contracts with the Twin Otters, tow planes, and gliders at the AF Academy....though the Twin Otters and gliders are owned by the USAF, the Cubs are owned by the company. So we maintain all of them, and we operate the Cubs. The Twin Otters and the Gliders are flown by military.

The planes live at the academy, and are exclusively used by them right? Whether the planes are owned privately and leased back is secondary - they are still used by the Air Force for primary instruction. And they have "Air Force Academy" plastered all over them, too!

We see cadets up here fairly regularly - paying for instruction out of their own pockets - to make sure they don't fall through the program. I always wondered why the hell they do that - with hangers full of them available on the taxpayers dime. I guess they are expected to meet certain standards with a minimum of instruction in phase checks as a weed out program. Chem 101 for cadets. Sink or swim.

'soyAnarchisto

soyAnarchisto wrote:The planes live at the academy, and are exclusively used by them right? Whether the planes are owned privately and leased back is secondary - they are still used by the Air Force for primary instruction. And they have "Air Force Academy" plastered all over them, too!

We see cadets up here fairly regularly - paying for instruction out of their own pockets - to make sure they don't fall through the program. I always wondered why the hell they do that - with hangers full of them available on the taxpayers dime. I guess they are expected to meet certain standards with a minimum of instruction in phase checks as a weed out program. Chem 101 for cadets. Sink or swim.

'soyAnarchisto

Only the Cirrus live at the Academy now for a program called Powered Flight. Kind of an intro to flying, no solo, no PPL. The USAF owns those.

The DA-40's we own used to live there but were replaced by the Cirrus. They do still say U.S. Air Force Academy on them as you can see in my photo above. They are no longer flown by the USAF at all. We moved them all to Pueblo when that contract ended for storage. They are all on the market for sale. I think we're down to about 17 of them left. We fly a couple of them occasionally to keep them "exercised" for potential buyers, only flown by our company.

The DA-20s that had USAF Academy on them haven't been around for over 6 years, they were replaced by the DA-40s, that are now replaced by the Cirrus. The Cirrus is the ONLY piston GA plane flown by cadets at USAFA anymore, and they are owned by the USAF. The Cessna they have for the flying team, are still of course, owned by USAF and flown by cadets as well. The Cubs are owned by us, flown by us, maintained by us, live at the Academy to tow gliders. The Gliders are owned by USAF, flown by cadets, and maintained by us, live at the Academy. The Twin Otters are owned by USAF, flown by USAF, maintained by us, live at Peterson AFB.

Our planes are not on leaseback to the USAF, the USAF pays us under contract. Down in Pueblo with our DA-20s, that say Doss Aviation on them, the students are USAF, the CFI's are civilian, with a few military IPs to conduct checkrides. We also have a huge hotel, dining facility, fitness center, and so on, just for that contract. We push 2000 students through a year, screening them for continued pilot training in the USAF.

When we had DA-40s up at USAFA, they were flown by the cadets and military IPs, maintained by us and owned by us, again, under a contract to provide that.

Cadets haven't flown DA-20s in some years at USAFA, and they stopped flying the DA-40s this past year and switched to the Cirrus.

Flying at the Academy for cadets is not required, it's an elective basically. Seriously, that's where I worked the past 8 years before I retired.

Here's what they're flying now, the T-53...aka Cirrus SR20

Tadpole wrote:Our planes are not on leaseback to the USAF, the USAF pays us under contract. Down in Pueblo with our DA-20s, that say Doss Aviation on them, the students are USAF, the CFI's are civilian, with a few military IPs to conduct checkrides. We also have a huge hotel, dining facility, fitness center, and so on, just for that contract. We push 2000 students through a year, screening them for continued pilot training in the USAF.

Interesting - so the students are regular USAF - not cadets. I still don't get why they need supplemental training and come up here.

Is this the program? The planes say Doss on them:

http://www.baseops.net/militarypilot/usaf_ift.html

Thanks for the info!

'Greg

soyAnarchisto wrote:Interesting - so the students are regular USAF - not cadets. I still don't get why they need supplemental training and come up here.

Is this the program? The planes say Doss on them:

http://www.baseops.net/militarypilot/usaf_ift.html

Thanks for the info!

'Greg

Our students are active, reserve, guard AF, not cadets. When they get selected for pilot, CSO (nav), or RPA (unmanned aircraft), their first stop in pilot training is our course. Then onto UPT / SUPT, or RPA stuff.

Some of our students do go out on their own and seek DA-20 flying. We don't give them full use of the planes, they fly a specific syllabus, specific number of sorties, and they move on or not, as deemed by the USAF on a checkride. Some students feel they could use more flying and go up there on the weekends and rent to try to get more practice. Now there is also an almost exact DA-20 for rent at Pueblo, so they don't have to go far.

Those planes with Doss on the side are the ones I'm in and out of every day, we have 49 of them right now. www.dossifs.com, come down and I'll show you around, its pretty impressive.