DavidB. wrote:Maybe a Maule, but I have been warned away from them and told they are hard to fly. Sorry, don't mean to hijack your thread.

Oh David... I hope you are wearing safety glasses and kevlar..haha.

They're only hard to fly because of...well have you heard the one about why scooters are like fat chicks?

obxbushpilot wrote:

Report this postReply with quoteRe: What's your Favorite Cross Country Plane??
by once&futr_alaskaflyer » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:03 pm

Well, I've been looking at twins as I mentioned in the other thread, if I were in the lower 48 and needed a 500-1000 mile traveler. Older four seater with (hopefully) many of the typical issues already recently addressed by previous owners (ha!)

Four seats to keep the insurance costs down.

Low end would be a Twin Comanche or Beech Travelair, high end would be an older C310 or Piper Seneca. Maybe a Skymaster if I found a cherry.

I got my multiengine rating in a Travelaire and after that I purchased a twin Comanche. I was intersted at the time in a good X country plane. The twin Cmanche was not as good as I hoped it would be. The minimum controllable airspeed is like 89 mph and the plane will often fly at around 75mph. The plane has issues with its design that make it a less than desireable twin for high terrain. The single engine service ceiling is like 5000 ft. If you lose one you better be below that or planned for a hard let down.
maybe a single is better since there is no appreciable added safety by flying a low powered twin with two right turning props.

Interesting. Thanks. Though I might mention I'm looking for a turbo model with the RStol, which helps both the Vmc and the SE service ceiling issue

I have an 87 Mooney 201 for cross country, a Husky for back country, and an ASH26E (self-launch glider) for soaring. Hardly use the Mooney as the Husky is so much more fun.

kneel wrote:..........
BUT, why not have the best of both worlds(backcountry and x-country):
http://tradeaplane.com/detail/988267.html
Actually just found this one. Makes me think.....nope better to stay out of debt. I have not flown any of these, but all seem to be planes with great performance that people seem to over look. -Kneel

The link is to an ad for an Aerocomp Comp-Air 8 , priced at $275K. There's one of these sitting on the ramp at Skagit airport in western WA, looks like it might be a handful. I'd rather have a Porter, but those probably go for 3-4 times the money.
This Porter's been on the ramp for several weeks, probably due to the apparent prop strike -- it's been Q-tipped the hard way. With that long snout & long prop, it looks to me that the prop would have to hit if the airplane was in level atitude on the ground. It could be that the pilot tried to wheel-land or let the tail come up on takeoff. Seems to me that it is a 3-point only airplane.

The Cessna T206 is a nice 4 person aircraft with room to spare. Flexible interior and big doors. Built in O2 so you can fly it high or low. 140-150 KTS TAS at 16gph with 104 gallons onboard.

The T206 works very well as my Jack-of-all-Trades airplane and is very capable at most backcountry strips when equipped with larger tires. What it doesn't do is FIKI. I'm finding that I'd like a second 200 KT bird with FIKI for more reliable IFR transportation when the temps dip. I think a Barron or a P210 would make a nice cross-country IFR aircraft.

A friend of mine has 5 airplanes one for each mission. Here are is planes:
1. 300hp 1956 182- his jack of all trades airplane.
2. de Havilland Beaver- higher capacity BC aircraft.
3. 450hp Cessna 195-Harley Davidson of the sky
4. Grumman Albatross- to go play on the water or fly to the carribean ...with all your friends
5. Turbine Aero Commander- the reliable IFR steed.

They all score very high on the Cool Factor. I'm living vicariously through him.

Zane wrote:.......have you heard the one about why scooters are like fat chicks?

No, let's have it!

fun to ride as long as your friends dont see you

Opinions are like certain body parts - everybody's got one ... but it's kinda fun to survey different people's take on what's a pretty important question for those who fly cross country on a regular basis ... like me!

Since most of us live on a non-bazillionaire's budget, let's assume your question is really directed to piston aircraft ... any plane with a turbine is going to be a seven-figure investment which most of us can't swing.

My opinion: I have been pining for some time over my "next airplane" (who isn't? ), which would be Piper (naturally) Seneca II or III-TC. Why?

It's reasonably fast - with a reliable cruise on the order of 185 knots (yeah, other twins, and some singles, fly faster)

It's a Cherokee - meaning it's got very tame flying manners ... it's a lot harder to get into trouble with a Seneca than with, say, a Baron or a C-310.

It's got a very large, wide, comfortable cabin ... meaning little or no claustrophobia for pilot or passengers ... and can cary a load of 6 souls plus bags in reasonable comfort, or 4 souls, lots of bags, and full fuel for a long ride.

The Seneca has a safety advantage over most other light twins - it's got counterrotating engines, meaning it doesn't have a "critical engine". The biggest drawback to light twin safety is having to deal with an outage of the critical engine.

And the Seneca II or III-TCs can fly high in the lower flight levels, over most weather, and they also typically come equipped with anti-icing and/or de-icing equipment, making it a serious IFR platform.

Lastly, the fuel burn on the 220-hp turbo IO-360s is considerably less than what you get with some of the competitive light twins out there.
Prices? You can pick up a Seneca II or III-TC in pretty good condition for low 100's to low 200s (the IIs will be near the lower end of that range, and the IIIs will be near the upper end of that range). So it's affordable for a lot more people than any turbine-powered aircraft, and can be bought for the price of a used Bonanza or Cirrus SR22, neither of which has as big and comfortable cabin, or the security of a backup engine - important if you're crossing mountains or oceans.

I just remembered a fantastic old XC plane. It's a Bellanca 260. It performs similarly to a Turbo 210 which of course means that it beats many light twins as well. On the plus side, it's tough to beat for takeoff and landing distances. On the down side, it's wood and fabric!

http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/Bellanca/3.htm

Plus, early models had a cool triple tail!

58Skylane wrote:If you were fortunate enough to have two airplanes (1 Backcountry and 1 Commuter), what would be your favorite cross country (commuter) plane?...

Why have 2 plane if my mission is to only go 650nm in 4hrs then I can get one plane that can go into the bush and be my commuter. I would pick the Quest Kodiak to do that.


Now if I really wanted some speed and money wasn't a issue then I'd go for a Phenom 100 or some other single pilot turbo jet like it.

I think I'll stay with the old 182, because that is what I have. It will haul a load, it will get you there not as fast as your dream airplanes. But, if you love to fly than why in the hell do you want to get there in such a big hurry? Besides I can go out and play in the backcountry in the same airplane.

With the Serria 50 gals and Flint tip 30gal tanks w/ 200lb GW increase the Tiger 206 would fit the bill. 4 pax at 180lbs, 575 nm with reserve, in under 4 hours. Plenty of room, fixed gear, reliable engine, land on a gravel road. I hope I get it done.

Our local EAA chapter president has a clean 1956 G model Bonanza he'd sell really cheap, mid 30's. A 540 or 550 engine conversion and some of the aero cleanup mods would make a good 200 mph XC cruiser with Beech strength, easy handling, good comfort, single engine simplicity, reasonable maintenance costs, and even be able to use some of the more mild back country strips. This is a very workable, reasonable solution on a pretty low budget.

Since we're also dreaming and speculating here, on "the wild side" you could take a runout twin Bonanza or Queen Air and put a Czech turbine in the nose, remove the engine nacelles from the wings, and have a pretty luxurious ride if you don't mind an experimental ticket. I saw an old Ted Smith Aerostar done up that way at Oshkosh, it looked very well done. You can buy runout older twin engine airframes fairly cheap because nobody wants to deal with overhauling those alphabet soup engines. Adding the structure in the fuselage to handle the engine loads is not really that bad for a smooth running turbine. You can make a "po' boy's" PC-12 for probably 1/4 of the money this way. So long as you're not using it for commercial purposes, you can use all that money you save to buy the gas for it.

Mine x country/ back country plane.... Helio Stallion!!! What is it a plane that needs a little less than 400 feet to take off and land with a PT-6 and will cruise in the 250 knot range!



Reuben

I am a little surprised that nobody has made mention of a Piper Aztec. Granted, they are not the fastest twin around but they have a rugged load hauling reputation. And there is the option for the Nomad conversion to get them on the water; how cool is that?!
My father had one for a little bit in the early 90's. I don't think I ever got a ride in it but it was a cool plane.

-Nate

"What's your favorite Cross Country Plane??"

Very simple answer:

The one I have the keys for today.

MTV

mtv wrote:"What's your favorite Cross Country Plane??"

Very simple answer:

The one I have the keys for today.

MTV

My thoughts exactly mtv.......and it's mine, mine, mine!

mtv wrote:"What's your favorite Cross Country Plane??"

The one I have the keys for today.

I dunno... Been more than once I've held a set of airplane keys in my hand, my ride of the day, and walked out on the ramp saying, "Shit, shit, shit."

Gump

GumpAir wrote:

mtv wrote:"What's your favorite Cross Country Plane??"

The one I have the keys for today.

I dunno... Been more than once I've held a set of airplane keys in my hand, my ride of the day, and walked out on the ramp saying, "Shit, shit, shit."

Gump

Gump,

You just haven't spent enough time sitting at a government desk....do that a while, and ANY airplane seems to be an eternal blessing.....

MTV