I know there's talk of tires in lots of threads, just wanted to get an easy answer here. What tires are you guys finding best on your C-180s? I have seen lots about the 31"ABWs causing gear oscillation. Is the same true for the 29"ABWs? Or should I go down to a 26" ABW to get rid of that problem? I land very little pavement, and lots of sand bars and tilled fields, So I'm pretty sure that 8.50s won't do the job. I've looked at the 29x11x10s, but by the time I buy 10" wheels and the tires I'm actually looking at more cost then just buying the ABWs. So I guess to make a long question short, will 26" ABWs do the job, or are 29s better suited for the job?

David

I had 26" ABW on mine and they seemed to work well. I just bought a set of 10x10 wheels and buffed 29" airhawks to try out. I need something that will last a little longer with the occasional pavement landings when loaded heavy. The new set (wheels and tires) was more expensive than the bushwheels, but the airhawk tires are much cheaper to replace. I'll let you know how I like the airhawks in a few weeks.

Jeremy

I have had 29 Bushwheels with baby bushwheel tailwheel for almost a year and really like them. I read on various sites that 29 was the best Bushwheel size for the 180. Much better for landing on rough strips and taxiing on soft turf or dirt. I did lose about 10 mph in cruise.

It would be cool to commit a few of these opinions on best tire choice to the Skywagon page in the Knowledge Base. The bushwheel STC is listed of course but not much information about details like gear flutter with heavier tires.

So after 60'ish landings on everything from pavement to golfball+ sized gravel I feel like I have a good idea of how the tire/wheel combo will perform. My intent on switching from 26" ABW's to the 29" airhawk was to prolong tire life and still have an off airport capable tire for the occasional gravel bar. I have no doubt that the airhawk tire will fare much better on the pavement and probably fits my original mission perfectly. However, in this experiment I have learned that my "mission" may not be as black and white as I originally thought.

With the 29" AH I feel every little rock and bump... The difference in shock absorption between the 26" ABW and the 29" AH is beyond significant. I rarely ever felt much of the spring gear on a rough strip with the ABW's, but off airport sites that I had written off as "not that rough" suddenly became "rough".

I have decided to switch back to the bushwheels in the spirit of saving my airframe and back... The 29" AH's would make a great tire for someone who stuck to pavement, sand, and improved gravel strips. In my opinion though, they don't perform on a level I would consider reasonable for unimproved surfaces, regardless of how occasional your visits there may be.

If anybody is interested in an almost brand new set of 10X10 wheels with buffed airhawk tires let me know! I'll make you a great deal

X2 what Alaskabound said!!! Your wife n kid will be much happier with your nice smooth Bushwheel landings too

Just go easy on the sharp turns on pavement/gravel and the ABW's won't mind hard surface at all. I hear lots of talk about how bad ABW wear on pavement...not my experience, and I'm putting 400-500 hours a year on really sharp gravel, a fair amount of pavement too. That said, I highly recommend the extra lay of rubber they can do for the wear spots on ABW, think it was like $250 extra. I fly the air hawks at work and they are just as Alaskabound said, rough!!!

Interesting replies. For me, the 31" bushwheels are overkill for my mission. No gravel bars or river beds here, but the occasional yucca cactus, sage, grass clumps, or erosion is what I encounter. I have thought many times of downsizing as the speed penalty with the 31's in the 180 is almost painful, but then I read comments like those above and it makes be weary to think about anything smaller for off airport.

Skaly, let us know what you think of the 31s when you get them on. I'd also be interested to hear what people think of the GY 26's on the 180. Seems like a good compromise if you only had to pick 1 tire for many missions.

mountainmatt wrote:Skaly, let us know what you think of the 31s when you get them on. I'd also be interested to hear what people think of the GY 26's on the 180. Seems like a good compromise if you only had to pick 1 tire for many missions.

I ran the GY26s for a while and thought that they were ideal for light off airport ops on up to baseball sized rocks. Despite much of what I have read, they transferred noticeably less stress to the airframe than the 8.50s that I replaced with them. There was no noticeable speed penalty beyond what I saw on 8.50s. I usually ran them around 22 psi, and once noticed that the tire slipped and the valve stem was cocked through the hole. Was really lucky that it stopped there. I would give the skywagon/GY26 combination a rating of 9 out of 10 for lower 48 moderate risk back country adventuring.

I mounted Goodyear 26 "Blimp tires" on my humble Piper Pacer. I am very happy and haven't seen much of a speed decrease over the 8.50s. Anyone that says they aren't that much bigger than 8.50's doesn't understand proportions. That same logic "31's are much bigger than "29's.

For the money they are damn hard to beat and I can barely fly the airplane, let alone take it into a strip where I truly need Bushwheels.

Matt, will do with the 31's but it'll probly be awhile...I've flown in a 185 with 26" Goodyears, rougher than crap compared to ABW. However I have also flown GY's on a super cub and they were much better than 8.50's on the cub anyways.

I installed 29 inch ABWs on my 180 flew back and forth from Nampa pavement to Hells Canyon grass strip.
They were fantastic for 75 hrs.then I discovered several spots where the cord showed on one tire . The wear was not alignment .but appeared on the overlap seam of the tire. I replaced the tire and 25 hrs later the same thing showed up on the other tire. For off airport landings they were best upgrade I have made. I plan on installing them on my 170. I bought a set on 10 x10 wheels with shaved 29 inch airhawks Had to learn how to land again. They are definitely rougher but after a 100 hours flying they look new. 35 dollars an hour for tires is too high a price. I recoated the ABWs with herculiner and put on about 10 take offs and landings.
I hope they will work better on the lighter 170. Now I see you can get the ABWs with a thicker coat of rubber.
That might help, but if not its an expensive learning experience.

Great discussion! Sounds like we'll have more choices to ponder next year. Desser got back to me and they are indeed planning on STC:ing those new 27 and 31 tundra tires which can supposedly be run tubeless. They say early 2015.

Blown56 that is a total bummer. Really wonder what was up with that? I ran a set of 29s for 600-700 hours or so on really rough sharp rocks with long taxis and they had plenty of life left when I quit flyin em. The set I'm on now have the extra rubber and bout 350 hours with tons of pavement action n look like they're still new. Did bushwheels say anything about whatever was going on with em??? Did they not warranty that?

Oregon180........ did Desser mention what weight their STC tyres would be able to handle? Up to MAUW of a C185??

Thanks for all the input guys. I know the difference ABWs make. Went from 8.00s to 31s on my Citabria. I love the big pillows. I landed a lot of tilled fields, wet fields, gravel roads, rock bars, and some pavement and the tires looked great. But that is a much lighter plane.
For now im gonna run 8.50s and burn a bunch of gas getting a feel for the new plane. Next spring I'll go to 29" bushwheels. Unless Desser is very close to their tire. Will be very interested what it will look like/compare like to a ABW.

We are talking Wagons here, so here is what I've learned (mostly from persons more experienced then I):

If you're flying has a single mission there is a perfect tire/wheel combination. But if your flying has two missions, there is not a perfect tire/wheel, you will need to compromise. Have more then two missions? Then there will need to be even more compromise. The exact compromise will be based on what percent each of the missions is to the whole - and your emotion - in other words to what extent you want a coolness factor. And of course what that means to you. And perhaps your budget.

Choose poorly and you won't like the results. If you put ghetto tires and wheels (the biggest wheel shortest sidewall tire) on your 4x4 and take it off road, your vehicle will hate you, your body will hate you, and your pocket book will hate you.

Put a small rim, large sidewall tire on your sports car, drive it fast, and corners will hate you. Race Mulholland Drive for pinks and you'll be walking home, assuming you don't perish in a fiery crash over a cliff.

What does all this mean for a Wagon?

Put 8.00x6 on the mains, with speed pants and a speed kit, and you've got one sexy, very fast, pavement pounder.

Take off the speed pants, put on 8.50x6, and you've got a not quite so fast (but still envious), pavement/grass strip/wet beach sand player that looks a bit underdressed.

Put on Goodyear Blimp 26x6 and you retain essentially the same speed as the 8.50x6, have a little better flotation in the soft stuff, no tread so you throw less at the wing and tail, and they wear like iron on pavement. They are tube type tires so can't be aired down as low as bushwheels without spinning the tire on the rim and shearing the valve stem (try putting contact cement on the bead). Their sidewalls are stiffer (because they wear like iron) then 26" Bushwheels so they don't cushion the same.

Put on 26x6 Bushwheels and you loose some speed because they are both taller and wider then 26x6 Goodyear Blimp tires. They have better cushion and flotation (because they are both taller and wider, and can be aired down lower), but they don't wear like iron. However the coolness factor is significantly improved with either 26's.

Put on 29x6 Bushwheels and loose a lot of speed (15mph on my Wagon). Very good cushion and flotation, but they don't wear like iron. And a little sidewall tucking on sidehills. Excellent rough country, off-airport tire/wheel size. Unbeatable coolness factor - until you park next to a wagon with 31's.

Put on 29x10 Airhawks and you are going a little Ghetto (shorter sidewall height), so you'll have less cushion, but it will also have less sidewall tuck. And perhaps be a little better on pavement.

Put 31x6 Bushwheels on and hopefully you have RSTOL and never land on side hills (otherwise why have them - oh yea - the coolness factor). Of course this combo might be perfect for that single mission plane.

Except for single missions there is no perfect tire/wheel combination, nor is there an imperfect tire/wheel combination. They all have there place and so all have equal value. IMHO anyway.

Coolness can always weight or even trump mission (or practicality) - as can budget.

NZMaule wrote:Oregon180........ did Desser mention what weight their STC tyres would be able to handle? Up to MAUW of a C185??

I asked about STCs for the 180 on the 27 and 31 tire, which they said they were planning on. I don't have any more info than that, unfortunately.

Barnstormer wrote:We are talking Wagons here, so here is what I've learned (mostly from persons more experienced then I):

If you're flying has a single mission there is a perfect tire/wheel combination. But if your flying has two missions, there is not a perfect tire/wheel, you will need to compromise. Have more then two missions? Then there will need to be even more compromise. The exact compromise will be based on what percent each of the missions is to the whole - and your emotion - in other words to what extent you want a coolness factor. And of course what that means to you. And perhaps your budget.

Choose poorly and you won't like the results. If you put ghetto tires and wheels (the biggest wheel shortest sidewall tire) on your 4x4 and take it off road, your vehicle will hate you, your body will hate you, and your pocket book will hate you.

Put a small rim, large sidewall tire on your sports car, drive it fast, and corners will hate you. Race Mulholland Drive for pinks and you'll be walking home, assuming you don't perish in a fiery crash over a cliff.

What does all this mean for a Wagon?

Put 8.00x6 on the mains, with speed pants and a speed kit, and you've got one sexy, very fast, pavement pounder.

Take off the speed pants, put on 8.50x6, and you've got a not quite so fast (but still envious), pavement/grass strip/wet beach sand player that looks a bit underdressed.

Put on Goodyear Blimp 26x6 and you retain essentially the same speed as the 8.50x6, have a little better flotation in the soft stuff, no tread so you throw less at the wing and tail, and they wear like iron on pavement. They are tube type tires so can't be aired down as low as bushwheels without spinning the tire on the rim and shearing the valve stem (try putting contact cement on the bead). Their sidewalls are stiffer (because they wear like iron) then 26" Bushwheels so they don't cushion the same.

Put on 26x6 Bushwheels and you loose some speed because they are both taller and wider then 26x6 Goodyear Blimp tires. They have better cushion and flotation (because they are both taller and wider, and can be aired down lower), but they don't wear like iron. However the coolness factor is significantly improved with either 26's.

Put on 29x6 Bushwheels and loose a lot of speed (15mph on my Wagon). Very good cushion and flotation, but they don't wear like iron. And a little sidewall tucking on sidehills. Excellent rough country, off-airport tire/wheel size. Unbeatable coolness factor - until you park next to a wagon with 31's.

Put on 29x10 Airhawks and you are going a little Ghetto (shorter sidewall height), so you'll have less cushion, but it will also have less sidewall tuck. And perhaps be a little better on pavement.

Put 31x6 Bushwheels on and hopefully you have RSTOL and never land on side hills (otherwise why have them - oh yea - the coolness factor). Of course this combo might be perfect for that single mission plane.

Except for single missions there is no perfect tire/wheel combination, nor is there an imperfect tire/wheel combination. They all have there place and so all have equal value. IMHO anyway.

Coolness can always weight or even trump mission (or practicality) - as can budget.

Good discussion....it's all about YOUR mission.

MTV

It will be very interesting to see what Desser comes up with. It might pose the first real competition to Bushwheel yet, which will be bad for them, but good for us. Seems like a 27 inch tire with Bushwheel style construction and a GY26 type rubber would be a sweet spot for the Skywagon crowd.

I have been fortunate enough to have accumulated a set of 31s, a set of GY26s, and a set of 8.50s for my 180. I have the 8.50s on right now because a friend is getting his TW endorsement in the plane. I don't want to scrub the 26s away, because they are kind of spendy, and they are my favorite tire. I definitely look forward to trying out the 31s for the second half of the summer then in to the fall, when I typically do most of my off airport flying.

The GY26 is the most versatile choice available now. The certification basis is pretty shaky on this tire though.

Alaskabound wrote:So after 60'ish landings on everything from pavement to golfball+ sized gravel I feel like I have a good idea of how the tire/wheel combo will perform. My intent on switching from 26" ABW's to the 29" airhawk was to prolong tire life and still have an off airport capable tire for the occasional gravel bar. I have no doubt that the airhawk tire will fare much better on the pavement and probably fits my original mission perfectly. However, in this experiment I have learned that my "mission" may not be as black and white as I originally thought.

With the 29" AH I feel every little rock and bump... The difference in shock absorption between the 26" ABW and the 29" AH is beyond significant. I rarely ever felt much of the spring gear on a rough strip with the ABW's, but off airport sites that I had written off as "not that rough" suddenly became "rough".

I have decided to switch back to the bushwheels in the spirit of saving my airframe and back... The 29" AH's would make a great tire for someone who stuck to pavement, sand, and improved gravel strips. In my opinion though, they don't perform on a level I would consider reasonable for unimproved surfaces, regardless of how occasional your visits there may be.

If anybody is interested in an almost brand new set of 10X10 wheels with buffed airhawk tires let me know! I'll make you a great deal

Sent you a pm. If you didn't get it I'm at [email protected]
Maybe buy those 29's……Have a set already (lovem for my mission) but not shaved. Like to see if they ACTUALLY throw less rock.