worst toughest landing...

here ya go, pleez listen close...

never never never take off south at johnson creek. i dont care what the
wind is doing! sept 15 of '05 i tried just such a stunt, and it cost me a
totally restored '73 182 P. while i thought it looked o.k., i was dealt a
wicked hand at tree-top level at about the half-way point on take-off.
my nice headwind turned into an even nicer tail-wind, and i could not keep
it climbing. mind you, loaded with 3 kids and too much fuel and supplies,
i quickly elected to stuff it back down on the runway in short order.

a couple of stalls, while trying to climb out preceeded this action. having
a bunch of friends kids with me had me on my toes, thank god.
i'll donate an airplane anytime before i'll hurt someone else's kids!

anyway, as i got the airplane flying again during my rather speedy
descent, we came down hard taking out the main wheels, firewall, and
the nose wheel and etc. we skidded to a stop within 10 ft of the end...
( yeah, up in the corner of the white rocks...) never have i been more
thankful that to hear the kids in the back-seat say "why'd you do that!"

no injuries, other than my bird and my pride...!

the fix for all of this, at least to me, has been in the form of even more
training...as lori m. says, flying the back-country is NOT a do it yourself
project! since then, with both of lori's courses under my belt, i feel like
i'm much more prepared and a little wiser...$ well spent...

for those of you who know it all, as i did, spend the $ for the training.
how much are you really worth...?! while this is not an ad for lori's
course's, myself and countless others have found that she and her
hand-picked instructors are simply the very best in idaho's back-country.

lowflyin'G3 wrote:The worst conditions I ever landed in were a 5 m.p.h. breeze DOWN the runway, 90 miles visibility, and high cirrus, all during the DAY!
BUT I was ferrying an unknown airplane for a friend and as I pulled up to the pumps and hopped out I came to find out that this happened to be the day that the Feds were visiting this particular airport (it wasn't in the NOTAMS or I'd have gone around to the next!) to have a look see. So three hours later after an extremely fragile time making phone calls and running the FBO out of fax paper, I left with a warning.
All the crosswinds, 0-0 landings while flying VFR, driving rain, icy roads, single engine (while I should have two) landings, and visibility impairing spidered windshields don't even freakin' compare.

Gosh I thought they were our Friendly FAA.

jomac wrote:never never never take off south at johnson creek. i dont care what the wind is doing! i could not keep it climbing. mind you, loaded with 3 kids and too much fuel and supplies, i quickly elected to stuff it back down on the runway in short order.

a couple of stalls, while trying to climb out preceeded this action. we came down hard taking out the main wheels, firewall, and the nose wheel and etc. we skidded to a stop within 10 ft of the end...

flying the back-country is NOT a do it yourself project! .

What does taking off to the south at Johnson Creek have to do with this train wreck? Sounds like things were FUBAR before the prop started turning.

And as far as "do it yourself," Johnson Creek is a pretty docile place for a "backcountry" airstrip." It's a fun little airport, and an easy airstrip, and people should not be afraid to fly in/out of there and have a good time.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:Sounds like things were FUBAR before the prop started turning.

To say the least! Glad those kids are alright. I guess a guy can do everything wrong and still pin it on the takeoff direction.

yeah, it's docile alright, but tell me that after you try to leave at 3.30
which is double-dumb on my part with the wind blowing the sock
in every direction u can name...just keep taking off to the north
and we won't have anything to talk about...!
. i didn't tell
u guys that stuff for entertainment, but rather for the chance it might
make all who read it a little safer...i'm the dumb one, and had i known
what i relayed to u guys, i'd not know that over 4 planes with all fatalities
involved died very close to that cabin looking south...thinking that all
is well and easy just because it is a very beautiful place.
hell, when i was at sulphur and johnson for a week in june, they were
piling up super-cubs with big tires everywhere! even on the blacktop
in mccall...i don't care if we bend airplanes, but let's don't cash in early!

jomac wrote:yeah, it's docile alright, but tell me that after you try to leave at 3.30. just keep taking off to the north and we won't have anything to talk about...!

thinking that all is well and easy just because it is a very beautiful place. hell, when i was at sulphur and johnson for a week in june, they were
piling up super-cubs with big tires everywhere! even on the blacktop
in mccall!

I think you're missing the point here. Flying three kids out of a hot, windy, medium altitude airport in a gutless, overloaded and underpowered for the job airplane means that the pilot has to evaluate weather conditions, aircraft performance, and pilot skill and ability, and then figure out if it's doable or not. "Just keep taking off to the north" doesn't really address any of the real issues, and is just asking for a repeat performance of the first disaster.

And it has nothing to do with Johnson Creek itself. Johnson Creek, like any other mountain strip sitting at 4,000 feet, can be a handful on a hot summer day. Smooth as a baby's butt early morning, and then gonna kill you dead at 4 PM. That's what beer and ice chests are for, so you can sit under the wing and be glad you're not flying during the afternoon winds.

Hell, any airport can kill you... If it's snowing, blowing or foggy. Doesn't mean you should write 'em off as being too dangerous. It means you either have the pilot skills and equipment to do the job, or else stay on the ground until the conditions improve to match up the situation. Even if you're in a big tire Super Cub. Mother Nature ain't impressed with big tires.

Gump

Damn Gump, you tell it like it is. But you know what? I like that!! It's sounds like alot of people can learn from people like you (I know I am!!). And I've got alot more to learn and get alot more dual before I'll head out to the backcountry on my own!!

And I think you right about JC, from what I've read from other post's and hear from friends, JC is not that difficult of a strip. It's all about the weather conditions, aircraft performance, and pilot skill and ability that goes into flying into backcountry strips like JC. It worries me about people that get talking about flying into the backcountry without getting proper instruction and thinking that they can fly into big strips like JC with out any worries just because they have read these forums, read books, and watched videos about flying in the backcountry. No matter how many hours a flat lander or city flyer has, he/she should or must get instruction before heading into the backcountry and always use sensible common sence!!

Instruction is neccessary for sure, but it doesn't do it all.

A long, long time ago a buddy and I flew into Willows for lunch at Nancy's on a hot, windy summer's day. Wind was howling in the 30 KT range, but straight out of the north. We came in, landed 34 ,and got things squared away and went in for something to eat.

As we went inside and sat down, we passed this guy sitting by himself in a booth. Brand new leather jacket still smelling like cow, big sunglasses on the table, and charts with pen marks all over them. Student pilot.

Didn't pay him much attention, got our waitress over to flirt with, and pondered if we should have beers or not. The usual. After about five minutes Mr Leather Jacket got up and walked over to us.

"Are you guys pilots?"

Thinking he might be a Fed or worse, we just pointed fingers at each other, "Who? Us?" And were glad the beers hadn't showed up yet.

"Why the f**k do you want to know?" We asked in a courteous but not real polite tone.

"Well, I just landed here before you guys did, and I was wondering what runway you used?

30 KT winds. Out of the north. My buddy and I just kind of stared slack jawed, and then said, "We used 34. What did you land on?

"Oh, I used 16, because when I came up here with my instructor a week ago that's the runway we used."

"Okay... Maybe next time you might want to look at a windsock or smoke from the fields or wind across the water, but you need to be landing into the wind if you can."

The look on the kid's face was pretty blank as we tried to explain this concept to him, and he went back to his table not really hearing a word we said. We had our lunch and refreshments, and watched as Mr Leather Jacket finished and walked out the door to to the ramp. I looked at my buddy, and we both said at the same time, "He's gonna use 16 to take-off.


Sure enough. He goes out his C152, does a 15 minute preflight with book in hand. Fires up, then taxis out to runway 16.

It's probably 110 degrees out there, winds north at 30 plus. He rolls onto the runway, tail stuck straight into the wind, and off he goes. 3/4ths of the runway on the ground from one side to the other, finally gets in the air in ground effect and wallows the rest of the runway length at about 10 feet, and finally disappears into the rice paddies at low altitude until we don't see him anymore.

No instruction is gonna cure that, and hopefully he decided to take up butterfly collecting instead of flying for a hobby.

Gump

Somebody once said "you can't fix stupid"

GumpAir wrote:

jomac wrote:yeah, it's docile alright, but tell me that after you try to leave at 3.30. just keep taking off to the north and we won't have anything to talk about...!

thinking that all is well and easy just because it is a very beautiful place. hell, when i was at sulphur and johnson for a week in june, they were
piling up super-cubs with big tires everywhere! even on the blacktop
in mccall!

I think you're missing the point here. Flying three kids out of a hot, windy, medium altitude airport in a gutless, overloaded and underpowered for the job airplane means that the pilot has to evaluate weather conditions, aircraft performance, and pilot skill and ability, and then figure out if it's doable or not. "Just keep taking off to the north" doesn't really address any of the real issues, and is just asking for a repeat performance of the first disaster.

And it has nothing to do with Johnson Creek itself. Johnson Creek, like any other mountain strip sitting at 4,000 feet, can be a handful on a hot summer day. Smooth as a baby's butt early morning, and then gonna kill you dead at 4 PM. That's what beer and ice chests are for, so you can sit under the wing and be glad you're not flying during the afternoon winds.

Hell, any airport can kill you... If it's snowing, blowing or foggy. Doesn't mean you should write 'em off as being too dangerous. It means you either have the pilot skills and equipment to do the job, or else stay on the ground until the conditions improve to match up the situation. Even if you're in a big tire Super Cub. Mother Nature ain't impressed with big tires.

Speaking of skills, one of the most critical skills in flying has to be the skill
to make the right decision at the right time. If a pilot can master that skill, chances are he/she will have a long career.
Gump

[/quote]

I kinda screwed up that last response. Anyway, mine began at "Speaking of skills............"

ya know, gump, i never really realized that 230 hp was all that gutless,
nor did i think that 800 lbs total was that much weight, but boy howdy
on wrong time of day and etc. my family used to fly in and out of their
ranch with call-airs and stinsons sporting way less than 100 horse, and
somehow managed to not bend much metal. that particular strip is now
closed on loon creek, but it definitely was a test of man and machine and
timing...
my current bird is a fixed-gear turbo 540, and i guess it too must be gutless...but ya know, i guess i'll just take my poor equipment and keep
coming out of bernard and soldier and vines as usual....maybe even j.c.
to the north...of course.

They're all gutless. Airplanes are like dirt bikes in that you can never have enough horsepower. And that C182 making 230 HP on a cool day at sea level isn't anywhere near that at JC or any strip at altitude and warm temps.

Right now I'm flogging along in an O-300 powered C172 tailwheel conversion in western Nevada, with most of my strips ranging from 4,500 to 7,500 MSL and density altitudes up over 10 when it's hot. I play glider pilot a lot to get a positive rate of climb, and some days I don't even bother trying to get the thing into the air, because it won't.

Gump

Thus why Rob and I put a plaque with the following inscription at JC last June.


Attention Pilots


The mountainous region around Johnson Creek Airport may have a higher Density Altitude than expected with a resulting decline in aircraft performance. Be wary of sudden adverse changes in weather, winds aloft, and airstrip conditions. Monitor Unicom 122.9 for other aircraft and make periodic announcements of your position and intentions.


Please file a Flight Plan! At the least, leave an informal note or give a verbal brief about your destination before take off. Carry the appropriate signal and survival items on board.


Be sure and check your charts for a safe and low altitude route to your destination. Particularly to the remote and wilderness airstrips including, but not limited to, Big Creek.




Placed in memory of Berk Snow
by his fellow pilots in June 2008

mtv wrote:

Crankshaft broke at relatively low level in steep mountainous terrain.

Wasn't a great landing, but the radio still worked, so I called for a helicopter to get me home.

MTV

Couldn't get yer photo....

Had the landing that woke me up more than any other just last week. Flying UH-60A+ aircraft as a flight of two under night vision goggles in Northwest, Iraq. Weather looked beautiful except for some high cloud cover for 6 of the 7 hours of the trip. Storm clouds started to form to the west indicating a system moving it.

We called the tower at our destination and requested a sector inbound. They very calmly advised us that a sandstorm was on the airfield. This spoken so calmly with no detail was confusing and startling. Took 3 calls to pin down that an outdraft from a collapsing cell had created a 1000 foot tall wall of sand crashing down on the airfield like a wave. We attempted to make the runway, but opted for the parallel as the runway was already engulfed. Landed with 30 KTS roll and got stopped as the dust cloud enveloped our flight. Couldn't see my copilot from right to left seat in cockpit. Shut down right there and walked the 200 meters to the dining facility for midnight chow. The dried out steak and near-beer never tasted so good.

Could have turned away and escaped to another landing zone except that we were not alerted to the severity of the situation until we were within a mile of it's face.

Still does not beat the Feds or a hot relunch neck.

Like flying the blackhawk, but love flying the Skywagon. Can't wait to get back to it in Fairbanks.

UH-60andC-180

Short final, trying to get it right while Knowing I was late for dinner on my anniversery

UH-60andC-180 wrote:...an outdraft from a collapsing cell had created a 1000 foot tall wall of sand crashing down on the airfield like a wave....

I think you may have just won

There was some action movie in the past couple years with a scene like what you describe. It was about a guy racing horses in the desert.

Thanks for your well-written and vivd account

-DP

C152 with instructor from southern WI to the U.P. of MI. We were practicing IFR . He filed a flight plan and let me fly the plane on instruments. Began picking up ice 50 miles from destination...nothing but trees all around. He took over as PIC and we 'smashed' onto the runway just 100' from the end, all the time going down 500 fpm with full power, no flaps and the plane buffeting on the edge of stall the entire ride. Broke out at 500'.

Also landed in the narrow patch of scrub between the gator swamp and the runway lights at jacksonville FL with one of those light sport amphib I was ferrying back to WI. I flipped the fuel selector to the right tank as I normally do on high wing a/c when making left pattern to land...only problem was this plane was build with on-off selector, not left right. Engine quit at 250agl over the swamp and no time to do anything except fly the plane to the 'best' of the worst spots.

I got 'stuck' VFR on top at 7500' with my C140 45min from dark at the end of a 3 hr xc flight from SD. Reports of solid overcast with bases at 1500AGL and dropping fast. Nothin but a needle, ball and airspeed. I pulled the plane (sort of by accident) into a stall then let it enter a spin and held it dropping through 7000' and broke out and recovered with bases now at 500 AGL. In the 15 min it took to get from that point to my rural grass strip, the bases continued down to 100 AGL at touchdown.

Jack Daniels never tasted sooo good after that flight!!
John

John, I vote you the winner. jg