Im new to aviation, matter of fact im only on my third lesson, and the only thing I KNOW is that i will finish this, become a private pilot and buy a single engine piston craft.

I want to be able to fly from ~320 MSL to ~320 MSL in basically uncontrolled airpace from non towered airport with fuel to a farm 115 NM away.
The farm has a nice straight maintained hay field, sand, with a nice 1500 "stright-away).

Surrounded in 20 yo pine trees.

Luckily this topic is fresh on our radar:

https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/what ... lane-23618

Cessna 150 will do all of that and more.

What kind of load/speed/ are you talking? With the right tires most any of the commonly found smaller aircraft will do that. Go find a good IA and have him/her help you decide.
DENNY

Not sure if you mean you want to haul fuel to the farm, or just need enough fuel to get there and back. Almost all of the GA 2-4 seaters would get you there and back with full fuel. Now, if you are wanting to haul fuel, I would lean more towards any of the 4-seaters. 170/172, Tripacer/Pacer, even a Cherokee would work.
What's your budget?
If I had a higher budget it would be a Cessna 180, but operating costs are too high for me. Now the Aeronca Sedan listed on this site awhile back....yes, I would be looking at it if I already didn't have a couple of planes!

Thanks very much for your quick responses!

Really, at the moment, my main concern is just safely transferring myself from my home to our farm, so that i can help my grandfather with his operations, and get back home to work, often, without all that driving.


I wanted to buy a 172 to train with, noticing how booked up and unavailable the flight school's plane schedules were.

they suggested i finish school before purchasing, suggesting that if i purchased a 172 (which they train with) that i would soon want one faster with more useful load and would lose on the upgrade.

I can see why a flight school would recommend this, (not to mention conflicting business interest, rentals, etc), and i sort of agree with not buying a plane that is unknown to either trainer or student in order for the student to learn, (no time for mechanical insufficeiencys in that stage)

anyway, i just want to be able to take off and land in 800 ft and clear the pine trees, without fail

I notice all backcountry planes seem to be tail wheel... why is that?

also, i am 6 ft 225. on the first day of school we almost had to cancel because me and the instructor that weighed 160 were too much for the smaller skycatcher. (we still didn't fly because it wouldn't start on that cold day. since then iv flown twice in a 172 sp with garmin1000 with a veteran instructor.

I'll chime in with a Tripacer owners perspective.

You could do your mission with a 150, 152, 172, 170, Tripacer, Piper Clipper, Vagabond, Citabria, Aeronca, Stinson 108, or any of the Cub variants ( J-3, PA-11, PA-12, ect).
I would stay away from all the modern plastic birds, Piper Tomahawk, Piper Cherokee, or the Grumman birds. They are all very good birds but they were designed with multi thousand foot runways in mind.

Now for a few notes from flying the 172, Tripacer, and Citabria:

1. All three have the "book capability" to clear 50 ft trees in 1500 feet for both takeoff and landing
2. Having 3rd and 4th seats adds a lot of utility compared to 2 seaters.
3. The 172 and Citabria will float on landing if your speed is at all high. The Tripacer doesn't care unless you are more than 10mph above approach speed.
4. You can buy a Tripacer for the same cost as a comparable condition 150. You will pay 30%-50% premium for the 172 all else equal.
5. The Tripacer is the easiest steep approach plane I have ever flown. Pull the power, drop the flaps, and it goes down about as much as it goes forward.
6. If you go with a classic bird like a Tripacer or Stinson get a good pre buy inspection. here are a lot of very good classics out there, but there are also a lot of junk piles that will bleed you dry in repair costs. Know what you are getting into before you put money on the table.

And lastly a personal note. Make sure you are ready before you try to land or take off from a strip surrounded with trees. Trees take away your margin for error or learning. Know exactly how long your strip is. Then practice someplace safe to make sure you can get above the treetops 100% of the time with extra margin for stray winds or a power burp. A lot of small mistakes at your county airport are fatal at a small tree lined strip. You can do it safely and it is kind of fun but you need to take it seriously.

Just another free and priceless perspective:

TX Plane: Do NOT waste energy thinking about this right now. I know it's fun to project into the future, especially since primary training often isn't much fun, but it's counter productive.

Getting your ticket is enough to think about, and if you actually do that you'll have forgotten more about airplanes than you currently know. Just concentrate on the flying, not the hardware. In my experience people who concentrate on the aircraft rather than on the flying don't end up with a ticket. Buying hardware is easy, but learning to fly is hard. Prioritize.

And in any event the specific airplane is somewhat incidental to the process...they all function at a higher level of performance than the person manipulating them can attain. Just learn as much as you can about flying and don't worry about what you might be sitting in after you get your ticket. Any conclusions you come to now will be pretty irrelevant by then anyway.

Good luck...and reading trade-a-plane does NOT constitute studying for your ticket...

I don't want to discourage you from getting your license, but in the part of the state you're in you will find yourself scudded in more often than not in the mornings. What this means is after you have a license and an airplane, you still can't reliably fly at your appointed departure time that works within your schedule, which means if you're going, it will be by car. An instrument rating can diminish some of this, but that is another expensive rating and more delay in meeting your objective.

What I'm saying is that your defined mission is naive at this point in time. The utility of flight is there but not in the way you are regarding it. Acquiring a license and owning and operating an aircraft to reduce commute time for 130 miles does not account for the time it takes to get the airplane out of the hangar, preflight it, warm it up and configured for take off, flight, landing, taxiing, hangaring or tying down at the destination. All said, it may be faster to drive. If you were having to cover a greater distance, the utility of flight would improve. But the weather will always be a factor. Any delay waiting for the scud to lift you would have been there already by car.

Having said these things, this could be a stepping stone to bigger and better things in your life, so don't take this as discouragement. You just need to be realistic. And if this mission gets you to places in your life where the license is more appropriately applied, then get after it!

DeltaRomeo wrote:I don't want to discourage you from getting your license, but in the part of the state you're in you will find yourself scudded in more often than not in the mornings. What this means is after you have a license and an airplane, you still can't reliably fly at your appointed departure time that works within your schedule, which means if you're going, it will be by car. An instrument rating can diminish some of this, but that is another expensive rating and more delay in meeting your objective.

What I'm saying is that your defined mission is naive at this point in time. The utility of flight is there but not in the way you are regarding it. Acquiring a license and owning and operating an aircraft to reduce commute time for 130 miles does not account for the time it takes to get the airplane out of the hangar, preflight it, warm it up and configured for take off, flight, landing, taxiing, hangaring or tying down at the destination. All said, it may be faster to drive. If you were having to cover a greater distance, the utility of flight would improve. But the weather will always be a factor. Any delay waiting for the scud to lift you would have been there already by car.

Having said these things, this could be a stepping stone to bigger and better things in your life, so don't take this as discouragement. You just need to be realistic. And if this mission gets you to places in your life where the license is more appropriately applied, then get after it!

Dammit DR, do NOT hold GA up to the blistering light of practicality or common sense! Start doing that and we’ll all sell our airplanes, if anyone will buy them...

You are spot on, but that the OP actually has somewhere to fly other than the next airport over for a cholesterol top off makes GA more practical for him than 99% of the people who ever went down this particular garden path. Whether it saves any time is another thing entirely, but it might happen...

Back to buying a plane to get your ticket in. It is what I did have have no regrets! Bought a 172 after only a couple hours of initial flight training. The advantages were, no more scheduling issues. As soon as I soloed, I flew every chance I got, unlike the other students that had to contend with scheduling and then might be SOL due to weather when their 'time slot' came up.

Not wanting to push the 172 more than any of the other options, but the do seem to hold their value well. Actually, prices have been creaping up due to the training demand.

By the way, I still have that same 172A that I purchased 32+ years ago! They are a great all around plane that will do the mission most GA pilots ask of it.

WWhunter wrote:Back to buying a plane to get your ticket in. It is what I did have have no regrets! Bought a 172 after only a couple hours of initial flight training. The advantages were, no more scheduling issues. As soon as I soloed, I flew every chance I got, unlike the other students that had to contend with scheduling and then might be SOL due to weather when their 'time slot' came up.

Not wanting to push the 172 more than any of the other options, but the do seem to hold their value well. Actually, prices have been creaping up due to the training demand.

By the way, I still have that same 172A that I purchased 32+ years ago! They are a great all around plane that will do the mission most GA pilots ask of it.

In with Keith. I bought a C150 before I started my trained and in very happy I did. I learned to fly in the plane that I flew for another 60hrs after when I decided to upgrade. So it for what I bought it for. Not having to wait for scheduling was a big bonus. The flight school and other students couldn't believe that someone would spend 4 ot more hrs a day in the air or doing circuits, but I was there to train and get it done. No chance I could have done it like that in a school plane. Other benefits included actually being able to land in a field whilst doing a precautionary landing. School planes weren't allowed off pavement. So it was a good start into reading the field conditions and landing if I so chose. I wouldn't recommend getting the best plane for your mission that may change, but something like a C172 or tripacer that is great for training and useful after is a great choice.

Hammer wrote:

Dammit DR, do NOT hold GA up to the blistering light of practicality or common sense!

Yes, I'm guilty, too. Since I have the plane, and if I'm not already committed to a larger trip in the near future, I do take the plane to places that i'd get there faster if I had driven. Mostly as an excuse to keep rust at bay. I was just trying to get the OP to look beyond getting to Grandpa's farm as this will help develop a realistic definition of the mission and ultimately what type of aircraft to acquire.

I agree with the advice to get something to train in and worry about the greater mission at a later date as needs change (like A1 said). I trained in school aircraft and when I got the Maule it was an exhilarating experience that has yet to wear off!

I bought a plane before I ever took a lesson. Saved myself 10,000 in rental fees the first 100 hours I flew it. I would highly recommend buying a plane if you want to fly. BUT FIRST!! Find a good IA that is going to care for you and the plane. Start shopping for an IA first then look for a plane and don't fall in love until they approve of the relationship. You will get MOREBETTERDISEASE with anything you buy just fight the fever with Motrin. At around 500 hours you should be ready for a upgrade and you will have flown any smaller improvement money out of the plane.
DENNY

1ST: Just buy a MAULE!

2ND: Tailwheel is the only way to go.

3RD: Only wheel land.

There, that's all you need to know.

You're welcome...Rob

DENNY wrote:I bought a plane before I ever took a lesson. Saved myself 10,000 in rental fees the first 100 hours I flew it. I would highly recommend buying a plane if you want to fly. BUT FIRST!! Find a good IA that is going to care for you and the plane. Start shopping for an IA first then look for a plane and don't fall in love until they approve of the relationship. You will get MOREBETTERDISEASE with anything you buy just fight the fever with Motrin. At around 500 hours you should be ready for a upgrade and you will have flown any smaller improvement money out of the plane.
DENNY

I think it's a roll of the dice. Your advice to befriend a solid IA is very good, that should better your chances of a lucky bet.

But if that engine goes TU in some unexpected way, suddenly you're spending time and money to fix the plane instead of just tossing the keys to the flight school, wishing them good luck, and moving on to the next available junker.

You need to have an airplane that you can afford and one you can afford to walk away from if you wreck it...

My engine did go TU about 150 hours after I got it. Had to pull the wings and bring it home on a trailer. Picked up a used engine and flew another 250 hours before I sold the plane. My overall price for the 400 hours was less then 50 buck per hour. If I kept it for another 500 hours it would be a lot cheaper. The advantage of having your own plane is you can fly whenever you want and weather allows. With a good IA you can find a basic set of wings you can trust and fly the piss out of it whenever you want.
DENNY

Zzz wrote:

DENNY wrote:I bought a plane before I ever took a lesson. Saved myself 10,000 in rental fees the first 100 hours I flew it. I would highly recommend buying a plane if you want to fly. BUT FIRST!! Find a good IA that is going to care for you and the plane. Start shopping for an IA first then look for a plane and don't fall in love until they approve of the relationship. You will get MOREBETTERDISEASE with anything you buy just fight the fever with Motrin. At around 500 hours you should be ready for a upgrade and you will have flown any smaller improvement money out of the plane.
DENNY

I think it's a roll of the dice. Your advice to befriend a solid IA is very good, that should better your chances of a lucky bet.

But if that engine goes TU in some unexpected way, suddenly you're spending time and money to fix the plane instead of just tossing the keys to the flight school, wishing them good luck, and moving on to the next available junker.

Agreed, and the other thing that’s essential if you’re buying a plane to learn in is finding a GOOD instructor who’ll fly with you in this POS. Note the emphases.....

And, understand that the less common the plane type, the harder it’ll be to find a COMPETENT instructor for it.

Trust me, good instructors don’t grow on trees, especially ones who are willing/able to take you through the full PPL. route.

MTV