This happens from time to time on my private strip in my Taylorcraft it makes it virtually impossible to land just for the sake of discussion wondering if anybody else has encountered this in other areas and what they find is best to deal with it?


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Shawn

Winds "Aloft" can be tricky. Sometimes just 100 feet up they can be moving swiftly, while on the ground can hardly be noticed...seems morning and evenings with inversion type conditions are more common for this phenomenon in my experience. If you're proficient at your strip, better to have the tailwind "aloft" which transitions to "zero wind" close to the ground if you know for sure thats whats happening.

Another caution is where your windsock is located and if it might be protected from certain wind conditions. One of the airports I've been based at had strong winds every afternoon and when the wind was light from the opposite direction, the tail of the windsock would pin itself to the pole without actually changing around...almost as if the sock was so used to the prevailing direction, that it had a hard time swinging around. This would give an indication of a light wind from the prevailing direction, when in fact it was a light wind in the opposite direction. Not dangerous because of the light wind velocity but made me wonder sometimes.

YMMV

Yes going from 55 to 70 at idle feel like green giant throwing me lol


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Shawn

Like Bart said: The windsock isn't the entire story. Their placement can affect their usefulness for the approach.

T-craft

If you have the option try hanging or even tacking six inch wide strips of TYVEX
about six feet long in several places along and about you airstrip.
Tyvex will wake up and float on a breath of air long before your windsock wakes up.

That is how we solved the problem of low level wind changes (information) on a friends strip with a convoluted and committed approach. We even learned to put two strips on one big Oak tree ninety degrees apart.

Got any TALL grass you can leave tall?

Above all fly safe
Chris C

PS: Think I almost bought your plane about an hour south east of Austin Tx.

I have had a more than few landings where the wind at one end of the field was 180 degrees from the other and blowing hard or I just missed that the wind had switched while on final. I usually don't figure out the problem until I am well into short final. One thing I have learned is listen to the plane!! If you are doing your normal landing procedures and the plane is not going where it should do not force it onto the ground. If you have the runway and skill for a tailwind landing than just let the plane land when it wants. If not go around and land into the wind.
DENNY

In my case the wind is about 200 feet in height at about 50 feet AGL no indication whatsoever at AGL


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Shawn

Love conversation thanks


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Shawn

The calm down low suggests inversion, or warm air aloft. If terrain or buildings were causing problems, wind would be present on the surface. Smoke will rise straight up and then go horizontal at a hundred feet or so.

Power/pitch approach, rather than gravity thrust only (throttle closed, ) gives us a very important extra control: throttle. It is this control only that can effectively deal with wind changes due to shear or gusts.

Use the throttle as aggressively as necessary. Engine wear is less damaging than a hard landing. If we are sinking rapidly, we add full power and then adjust. If we are ballooning, we reduce power to idle and then adjust.

This technique had to be finesse d with older T-CRAFTS with Stromberg carbs. I think you have a more modern carb.

I had a fascinating conversation one day with a friend of mine who flies hot air balloons. I asked him where he usually lands after taking off from a local resort, his answer "right back where we started". He proceeded to discuss using ten foot elevation changes to use the wind to his advantage. Of course this is normally done on "calm" days when, in a balloon, you will can really notice subtle changes in the wind currents. The guy who's flying the balloon now musn't be as skilled as my friend was because he routinely drifts past our house and flops down in a nearby field . The point is (as you have already discovered) that just being aware of what the reported winds are at the surface, 3k, 6k, 9k, etc doesn't necessarily exaclty represent what the winds are at 3250' elvevation or at 20' above the furface.

At my home airport there are three wind socks. It's not uncommon for all three to be pointing in a different direction. I have to agree with DENNY in regards to how I usually deal with this. If I mess up and continue to try and accomplish a shortfiled landing when the airplane is telling me somehting different it ends up in a rodeo . Feel the airplane and respond accordingly.

FWIW

CW

Yes true on the carburetor I'm flying in F-22 Taylorcraft and I'm sure anybody that has flown one understands that you must be pretty precise on speed and any extra speed increases the amount of runway you burn substantially in comparison to other planes


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Shawn

I fly into one strip that has a tall silo right next to the airstrip flying a flag from its peak. Sometimes it tells a very different story than the windsocks at ground level. My favorite is when the silo flag is straight out perpendicular to the runway and the two windsocks at either end of the strip are spinning around this way and that, and generally not agreeing with each other...makes for a busy landing.
If conditions are questionable I fly a line perpendicular to a strip and watch my crab angle so I know better what to expect and how to plan the approach. Of course, if you are in a canyon, or one way strip, the options may be limited.
I overheard a radio exchange at a nearby airport the other night between what I assume was a less experienced pilot and an old timer. The old timer was wanting to reverse the pattern so he could land with favoring wind. The newer pilot was insisting that the AWOS said winds were calm and it pointless to switch. I had to agree with the old timer. I was flying slow with a pretty good crab indicating significant wind a short distance above the ground. Why fly a pattern with a downwind turn to final when you can fly a shorter pattern with a nice upwind turn to final? I stayed out of it and continued on my way, but last I heard they were going to land on opposing runways and were trying to work out their timing.

Tcraft

Maybe some photos of the strip? Would understand if you do not want to.

Any noticeable differences between landing of F-19 and F-22?

Maybe ya can make yer base leg at 40 feet.

Chris C

I will see if I can get a Go pro video of it soon it does kind of sit in a bit of a canyon and the windfunnels down through it that is basically the problem The 40 foot approach thing would work if it wasn't for cows in the feedlot og50 is the identifier


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Shawn

The F 19 in my opinion is the better Aircraft from a performance point of view but the F-22 is a far more comfortable airplane for traveling due to the fact it has two independent adjustable seats that can easily accommodate a six-foot plus individual.
The F 19 will stall just a little bit above 30 with vortex generators and the F 22 is about 36 with flaps at 30 of course the F-22 is about 200 pounds heavier with 42 gallons gas versus 24 in the 19 .
Or I should say the empty weight of the 22 is 1158.
They both handle virtually identical with the exception of performance The tail of the 22 weighs about 70 pounds so On landing it tends to be a little bit more finicky but when you get it on the ground it tends to stay there much better than the 19.
that being said the rudder throw is quite a bit more on the 19 so I have always been able to handle a lot more of a crosswind in the 19 then the 22 probably 8 miles more in the 19 just guessing



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Shawn

Some excellent advice in this thread from others.

My strip is bordered on three sides (W,N,E) by trees in the 60’ to 100’ height. About 3/4th of the way north is a cross strip which creates a break in the trees and changes the wind behavior. Landing to the north is preferred because the approach is unobstructed, but it sometimes means a tailwind landing. And the trees on the north end mean the strip is to be considered a one way once at the runway’s beginning (or shortly after) for some aircraft/pilots.

In the morning when the air is cool, and usually calm, going in and out is uneventful. But lots of afternoons see an increase in winds and turbulence which makes landing a bit “sportier” at times. Sometimes the wind is blowing 90 degrees to the runway. Which means I’m flying the approach wing down but knowing as soon as I reach the wind shadow of the trees that will change. Sometimes just before the runway the air drops out from under me, usually when the wind is blowing, so I prepare myself for this at throttle ready.

I don’t have any wind socks or other indicators other then the trees themselves. No wind socks in the bush (usually) besides lots of strips, as others have indicated, have wind socks at both ends blowing in opposite direction. How is that helpful? Like Denny said, the airplane will tell you what is happening.

As additional indicators I’m watching the trees, not just the tops which I expect to indicate wind speed and direction but I look at the leaves all the way down the tree. And not just at the beginning the runway, but further down as well.

At other places I can get ground wind info from looking at the surface of any slack water, be it in a river, pond, lake or ocean. Birds, if given a choice will take off/land into the wind. Smoke is an obvious indicator, but so is blowing sand or dirt, and the dust trail left by animals or vehicles. Of course bushes and trees also. Flags on flag poles also. And golf course flags in civilization.

It helps to be comfortable and in complete control flying at minimum controllable airspeed, and able to be wheels down within a few feet of intended touchdown point which requires first mastering minimum controllable airspeed. If I didn’t fly as much as I do I would be satisfied to land within an airplane length of my intended spot. Either way my airplane needs to be done flying once the wheels touch, I can’t afford being bounced back in the air. And I’m not doing greaser landings, I’m planting the plane on the ground.

Of course if the wind is gusty and unpredictable my approach is a little faster then calm MCA, but still slow enough that even a tailwind push will still leave me plenty of room to land and get stopped. These approaches are always power on, usually idle will bursts of power to control decent (very tiny with the SQ2, more deliberate in the 185) like Contact talked about. And I know that I don’t have to land, as Denny said, at least not until I run out of gas. I can always try again, or go somewhere more friendly and get a rest before making another attempt.

Oh, and I don’t fixate on the landing no matter how much work it is. If I fixated I might miss that deer, elk, moose or bear walking out on the runway, or be in “landing mode” mentally which would likely keep me from going around if needed suddenly.