So now that I have pretty well decided to let my PA28 go and moved to a smaller STOL plane I have been seeing a few of these pop up every now and then in my searching/research of some STOLs. I'm sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere or this is the wrong part of the forum but I haven't had any luck in the search.

In all seriousness, why are they naked... what benefits are gained by doing this and what cons does it bring about?

Welcome to BCP!

I'd say it's to cut down on weight a little bit. In those sometimes just a little can do a lot. I would think however that it'd kill how effective slips are if there isn't any skin! Maybe only a little. The first one looks cool...the second is a little too naked for me.

Makes customs easier.

saves weight

Advantage: Saves weight, less fabric repairs from brush damage, easy to see damage/cracks, easy to get to gear, cooler in summer, and looks cool.
Disadvantage: Colder in winter, more drag, harder to store/carry gear,and can't hide case of beer from friends
DENNY

The only naked planes I have come across so far are all Cubs or Cub Clones...
Are any of the guys flying Kitfox, Avid and alike doing this?
It seems like it would be really beneficial to them unless there are other issues which would arise when specifically dealing with those planes?

I would just need to store a couple of guns and maybe some fishing poles from time to time... haha
This would be nice for access:

When "Got Rocks" was built it was to save weight, after a little testing the upper baggage was added and flight characteristics improved, was a cool plane to fly.

Hottshot wrote:When "Got Rocks" was built it was to save weight, after a little testing the upper baggage was added and flight characteristics improved, was a cool plane to fly.

I tried to search "Got Rocks" on here with no luck... are there any reports or anything on that build anywhere?

tx_pilot wrote:

Hottshot wrote:When "Got Rocks" was built it was to save weight, after a little testing the upper baggage was added and flight characteristics improved, was a cool plane to fly.

I tried to search "Got Rocks" on here with no luck... are there any reports or anything on that build anywhere?

This is Got Rocks

The purpose of the naked feature is to scare the competition at Valdez.

Easier to taxi on skis in a crosswind, but less side-slip effectiveness, I suppose.

tx_pilot wrote:Are any of the guys flying Kitfox, Avid and alike doing this?
It seems like it would be really beneficial to them unless there are other issues which would arise when specifically dealing with those planes?.]

Most Avids and kitfoxes are nose heavy to begin with and this mod would only make it worse.

It's amazing how some people will fixate on some minute detail, and not pay attention to other larger issues. We all do it at one time or another, I'm as guilty as the next guy. But to make a huge drag increase, remove a layer of protection from the elements on your steel tube airplane, and change one or two of the airplane's flying characteristics... all in the name of removing two or three pounds of fabric off of an airplane... doesn't make sense to me. On a competition-only airplane, that sits in a hangar and never gets flown as a regular airplane, then maybe. But only then.

Some of the hardcore bush types will always stomp their feet about saving every ounce. But what about the increase in drag reducing the airplane's range? From what I understand, range is also really really important in real-world actual bush operations.

They'll go off the deep end to remove three pounds of fabric, and put a 25 pound metal prop on the airplane? Or 25 pounds worth of huge heavy tires?

So if you are going to show your bravado and extremism by leaving off the tailcone fabric, you really need to think about protecting your steel tube structure, since you're gonna get more mud and salt spray on it. Better spray on a few more passes of epoxy primer on the tubes. Couple of pounds worth, eh?

Since you don't want to go that much slower, you'll probably be pushing that throttle leever a bit further forward. Better carry another gallon or two of gas. Since there will be a little more wind chill in the cockpit, don't forget to take that extra jacket, and a nice pair of insulated pants.

Freakin' fabric? Come on guys, you can file that much off your crankcase by smoothing off the casting marks.

Naked planes do not get a free ride What I mean is that as EZ pointed out they are subject to all the physics that effect any fully clothed flying machine out there. Beyond that EZ and I don't agree on much with respect to the naked ones

Some bare bones facts;

With exception of the Zlin Bobber, these aren't really naked. They do have enclosed cockpits...Want naked with a real airplane wing? you need something like a Breezy... now that's naked

Got Rocks and Lil Cub were naked planes constructed embracing the experimental route to the fullest extent. Unlike the typical RV7 that gets stamped out in cookie cutter fashion with an internet based support group in the thousands to lead the builder along the way, these airplanes were scratch built incorporating new and innovative ideas that fell outside of the mainstream path. Some of the ideas were very obvious, but many very subtle or unnoticeable to the untrained eye.

While I can't speak for the factory, I believe the naked Savage (Bobber) was just meant to give a fellow the open air feeling of a Breezy, or UL, while still affording a bare bones minimum protection from the elements... Kind of like a full dress motorcycle... I doubt it was designed with weight loss in mind, and even more doubt that the ultimate goal was fire breathing performance, but this is pure speculation.

Other facts;

It has been said a thousand times before; build it to fit 90% of your missions and you will be happy. This includes naked planes.

In the case of Got Rocks, if you have followed Gregs adventures any, it doesn't take much math to figure out that even after adding the extended baggage this airplane wasn't going to haul the cool rafts, camping gear, and another pax with the ease Bushwacker does. Add that to the fact that Greg was actually able to land Bushwacker shorter, and it wasn't surprising which one he sold when it came time for one to go It is probably worth noting that Greg did not leave the fabric off Got Rocks to keep the weight down. In fact losing weight on the tail of any of these airplanes is fundamentally incorrect for the mission if that mission is in fact STOL.

In the case of Lil Cub, that airplane was purpose built to win Valdez, which it went on to do (both times it has competed) and then recently went on to put on a great 'demo' at Osh. Weight was one of the primary concerns (but not the only one) for a bare fuselage on that plane, but being essentially scratch built, that airplane was not bound to the same CG constraints as taking an otherwise stock cub and removing the skin... It is also worth noting that Lil Cub was flown 'naked' for quite some time, then covered in an attempt to gain a couple mph at hopefully not too much of a weight penalty. There was no measurable speed increase by covering the tail, and it was Franks opinion that adding the fabric to the tail did nothing more than cost time, money and weight. Upon rebuild it went back to it's original 'bare' tailed form. An additional tid bit is that this airplanes lives in real Alaska, and get's flown around just like any other cub living a stones throw from playgrounds like the Knik.... what I'm trying to point out here is that just because it was purpose built to win a competition, doesn't mean it's a trailer queen that doesn't get to see the day to day use any of the rest of us put our planes see.

I would say in all three of these examples the naked tail is a success . In Greg and Franks cases they fulfilled the spirit of experimental aircraft building, and at least in Franks case it undeniably attributed to a winning performance. In the case of the Zlin Savage, they stepped up and added another choice of aircraft to todays diminishing GA fleet... what's not to like?

Weight loss?.... If you don't address the CG prior to going naked the weight loss of removing fabric will be detrimental to your stol performance. On the other hand I once heard STOL king Jerry Burr comment that the only time he ever took his cub belt buckle off was to sleep or compete
Drag?... you're joking right? Got Rocks is on 3" extended gear rolling 35" Bushwheels and turning a 90" prop... It doesn't move fast enough to notice the drag here, the same is a verified fact for Lil Cub. Having said that, drag is not always a bad thing specially in STOL ops.
Speed penalty?... see above...
Repair, maintenance and corrosion?... Here EZ and I are on opposing sides of the fence. This is the reason Got Rocks is naked. Strip the fabric off 10 cubs and 9 of them will have rust on the bottom of the lower longerons. Seeing this with the fabric on is tough enough, repairing it with the fabric on is impossible.

So there ya go.... would I do it? Nah... probably not, but then again, it doesn't fit the 90% rule for my missions

Take care, Rob