mtv wrote:Okay, I'll be the turd in the punchbowl, and argue that the B flaps are really, really better than the A model. Also, there are so many mods that are approved on the B but not the A.....and you ARE going to want to mod it. Extended baggage is huge, as an example.....especially winter flying in AK, where you're carrying wing and engine covers, survival gear, etc.

The B flaps make a difference in BOTH landing and takeoff, though theres more difference in landing. But, don't underestimate the effectiveness in takeoff of using those big flaps.

As to cabin heat: On my airplane (a 1952 B model with O-360), we modified the entire heat system. We removed the carburetor heat from the muffler, and installed a "Stack robber" from a mid year Cessna 172. These things provide a source of heat for the carburetor by a "box like" structure that clamps on one of the exhaust pipes coming out of a cylinder. The carb heat hose is connected to that heat source.

Then, you take the half of the muffler that was originally used for carb heat, and route that via a SCAT hose to one of Atlee Dodge's "Heat robbers" or firewall mounted heat manifolds, which are commonly used for rear seat heat on Super Cubs. That valve routes the heat from the muffler shroud through the firewall and into a manifold for heat distribution in the cabin, or dumps the heat over the side when heat isn't called for.

Now, you have TWO sources of heat. Plumb them both into a cross manifold as shown earlier in this thread, and you'll keep your toes warm.

We did all this as a field approval in Fairbanks on my airplane, which is now back in Fairbanks. It was really pretty simple. The heat robber that goes on the stack is a stock 172 part, but the Scout uses a similar item for carb heat as well. So, standard part, used on similar engine. The Atlee Dodge manifold is really straightforward and is used on a bunch of Super Cubs.

I flew that plane in some no shit cold weather and always had plenty of heat.

Get in touch with the guys at Chena Marina Air Service in Fairbanks if you're interested. They did the work, and the plane is parked in front of their place as well.

MTV

roamak wrote:

mtv wrote:Okay, I'll be the turd in the punchbowl, and argue that the B flaps are really, really better than the A model. Also, there are so many mods that are approved on the B but not the A.....and you ARE going to want to mod it. Extended baggage is huge, as an example.....especially winter flying in AK, where you're carrying wing and engine covers, survival gear, etc.

The B flaps make a difference in BOTH landing and takeoff, though theres more difference in landing. But, don't underestimate the effectiveness in takeoff of using those big flaps.

As to cabin heat: On my airplane (a 1952 B model with O-360), we modified the entire heat system. We removed the carburetor heat from the muffler, and installed a "Stack robber" from a mid year Cessna 172. These things provide a source of heat for the carburetor by a "box like" structure that clamps on one of the exhaust pipes coming out of a cylinder. The carb heat hose is connected to that heat source.

Then, you take the half of the muffler that was originally used for carb heat, and route that via a SCAT hose to one of Atlee Dodge's "Heat robbers" or firewall mounted heat manifolds, which are commonly used for rear seat heat on Super Cubs. That valve routes the heat from the muffler shroud through the firewall and into a manifold for heat distribution in the cabin, or dumps the heat over the side when heat isn't called for.

Now, you have TWO sources of heat. Plumb them both into a cross manifold as shown earlier in this thread, and you'll keep your toes warm.

We did all this as a field approval in Fairbanks on my airplane, which is now back in Fairbanks. It was really pretty simple. The heat robber that goes on the stack is a stock 172 part, but the Scout uses a similar item for carb heat as well. So, standard part, used on similar engine. The Atlee Dodge manifold is really straightforward and is used on a bunch of Super Cubs.

I flew that plane in some no shit cold weather and always had plenty of heat.

Get in touch with the guys at Chena Marina Air Service in Fairbanks if you're interested. They did the work, and the plane is parked in front of their place as well.

MTV

That’s the best I’ve ever heard for more heat, I’m saving that for sure. Stock 53 heat is ok down to about -10 or so then it’s just cold. I need to do what you did for sure. Greg

daedaluscan wrote:

akschu wrote:I have an A model with the 8042 prop, 180 gear, horton stol (sportsman isn't approved on an A), VG's, GY 26" tires.

I've not had a bunch time in a B to compare, but in AK when light, I have no problem being off the ground in 300ft, and hitting 900-1000fpm.

The B is probably better, but my airplane works fine and for my use, the B isn't $10k better.

I have pretty much this setup (sportsman) on a B and it is an awesome plane at sea level and light - all the airplane I want.

But I want this performance at higher DAs so am about to put a 180hp in it. Makes absolutely NO financial sense, but that is not the only motivation in my life:) If you want this then buy one converted, and I would not worry if it was an A or a B.

cowpilot wrote:I have a modded A model (ABI double pucks, Sportsman STOL, 26” Goodyear’s, blah, blah, blah....)and have a ‘56 172 with a stock wing that my wife fly’s. I can usually land the 172 shorter than the 170. Better AOA. I truly don’t think that a B is enough better than an A to make any difference. You’ll pay less for an A and get less when you sell it. The extended baggage to me is worthless because I’ve run out of useful before I run out of room, with the back seat out. If an A model won’t do what you want, neither will a B. At that point look at a 180 or 182.

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mtv wrote:

cowpilot wrote:I have a modded A model (ABI double pucks, Sportsman STOL, 26” Goodyear’s, blah, blah, blah....)and have a ‘56 172 with a stock wing that my wife fly’s. I can usually land the 172 shorter than the 170. Better AOA. I truly don’t think that a B is enough better than an A to make any difference. You’ll pay less for an A and get less when you sell it. The extended baggage to me is worthless because I’ve run out of useful before I run out of room, with the back seat out. If an A model won’t do what you want, neither will a B. At that point look at a 180 or 182.

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I disagree with your assessment of landing distances between the 170A and the 172. The difference is the flaps, not AOA.

I've flown several of each, A and B, and to me there's quite a difference if you work the airplane hard.

MTV

daedaluscan wrote:But I think we all agree that you can land either of them shorter than you can get out with an O-300?

daedaluscan wrote:But I think we all agree that you can land either of them shorter than you can get out with an O-300?

mtv wrote:

daedaluscan wrote:But I think we all agree that you can land either of them shorter than you can get out with an O-300?

Yes, but again the B flaps will shorten the takeoff roll as well. So the flaps offer advantages on both ends. There’s a reason that EVERY Cessna single since the 170A has been equipped with those “para lift flaps”, or flaps very similar.

Now, I wonder why?

MTV

Bagarre wrote:

mtv wrote:

daedaluscan wrote:But I think we all agree that you can land either of them shorter than you can get out with an O-300?

Yes, but again the B flaps will shorten the takeoff roll as well. So the flaps offer advantages on both ends. There’s a reason that EVERY Cessna single since the 170A has been equipped with those “para lift flaps”, or flaps very similar.

Now, I wonder why?

MTV

As is evident by the Cessna's greatly improved performance numbers on the 170B vs the 170A.
..oh wait...

hotrod180 wrote:22 years ago, I wanted a 170, specifically a B model.
Went out & looked at several, but none of them were a very good value for the money.
I ended up buying a 1948 ragwing-- figured I'd fly it until I found a good deal on a B model.
But after a while I just quit looking.
I owned that 170 for 11 years & put 1700 hours on it.
Yeah, it wouldn't perform with a B model,
but it wasn't off the mark by that much, everything considered.
There ain't nothing wrong with a ragwing, and even less wrong with an A model.
The main thing is to buy a good solid airplane--I'd rather own a great condition A model, than a sketchy B.

bat443 wrote:I've had two 1955 B's, a 1949 A, and am currently flying a 1953 B with a Lycoming 180 and 80 inch Harzell. Lots of post on 170 Association site on how to modify the heat distribution system, not rocket science and probably can be done as a minor alteration as it isn't structural and doesn't effect cooling. They all fly about the same but the balance of the elevator when taxing makes it easier to hold the elevator full up on the B. The A and the 180 hp B require more trim changes in flight than a stock O-300 powered B which needs no trim change from cruise to landing. With the power set at 1700 rpm, each time you add flaps the airplane slows to the correct in trim approach speed for that flap setting. The A requires nose up trim and the 180 hp B with the 80 inch prop requires significant nose down trim and power for a full flap 65 mph IAS approach. With the 180 hp airplane takeoff and landing performance is better balanced with the B than it would be with an A though I have no experience with a 180 hp A. I prefer the heavier post mid 53 gear but the lighter gear works and may be easier on the airframe, the wings just rock more when taxing of uneven surfaces. I have no experience with a 170 A or B with 180 gear. Being an old, fat guy one problem I had with the A was that the flap and aileron cable run vertically on the center line of the aft wall of the baggage compartment making it impossible for me to crawl back into the tail cone for maintenance. I just got one of my young skinny mechanic buddies to crawl back there and do the work for me. This also means that there is no extended baggage kit available for an A model if that maters to you. I was flying the A when I bought my 180 hp but only bought it because I could buy the 180 hp B for significantly below market value so the seller could build a house. I really comes down to, are you willing to pay $45,000 for a B or would you be happy with a comparable A for $35,000. They are both great fun.

Tim