Backcountry Pilot • 180 gear for Cessna 170B

180 gear for Cessna 170B

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Tue May 12, 2015 9:46 am

180 gear for Cessna 170B

I recently purchased a 170B with stock landing gear, O-300, and 8.00x6 tires. I'm located in Southcentral Alaska and I've flow off airport some in a Maule M5 wtih 8.5x10s in the past. I'd like to expand my off airport work to include landing on gravel bars, ridges, beaches, and I have a pair of 2500 strait skis I plan on putting it on this winter. It currently has steel axles and single puck brakes.

How important is it to get the 180 gear and which tires/wheels do I need? Cost is always a concern, but I realize making any change will cost some and I'm ready to pay what I need to. I've heard mixed messages from several people about if I need the 180 gear or not? How important is it that I get the 180 gear?

For those around AK, places I plan to fly would include the Kinik Valley, Montegue, Polly Creek, Kustatan, Susitna duck flats, South Wrangles NPS strips, Alaska Range and Talkeetna range strips.

Thanks for your input.
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Tue May 12, 2015 9:47 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Having flown 170s with each I have to say that the 180 gear is a great mod. Do it!
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Tue May 12, 2015 10:05 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

What gear legs do you have now? There was 2 different types of gear on the 170. The early softer gear, and the slightly taller and stiffer "lady legs". They made the switch sometime during the 1953 model year. My 170B is an early 53 model with the soft gear. I had it on 26" Bushwheels for a few years and probably close to 500hrs. It always did just fine in a lot of different off airport environments. I'm not sure if I would want the 180 legs or not, they're stiffer so wouldn't they transmit more stress and vibrations to the fuselage? I would like them for the added prop clearance and increased angle of attack in the 3 point attitude though. But at around 3k for 180 legs I always find something else to spend my money on. If you want to fly your O-300 powered170 off airport the best 3 mods in my opinion are: Bushwheels(tailwheel too), 8042 prop, and Sportsman STOL. I say do those first then decide if you want to swap gear legs.

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Tue May 12, 2015 10:18 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

I've only ever had 180 gear on my '53 170B. I like it, but I can't compare it to either of the 170 gear. I'd strongly second Rob's suggestion about an 8042 prop on the O-300 if you don't already have one. I'd add BAS harnesses, and double-puck Clevelands before a gear upgrade if it was me. You might also consider the L-19 tail spring kit as a replacement for the stock 170 tail spring. It's beefier, and you'd have some peace of mind from knowing its history. You can buy a new one from Air Repair, Inc.
For tires, you can do a lot on 26" Goodyears. They're a decent compromise, IMO, and don't break the bank. I've got that 337 if you want it- I think it's in the knowledge base of this site. Last time I looked, it was more cost-effective to buy the whole Cleveland wheel/ brake set together, and sell your old wheels if you don't need them.
For the skis, I would get your 2500s covered on the bases with generously oversize sheets of UHMW, with UHMW and/ or metal skegs, depending on the conditions you expect to encounter. Atlee Dodge will do them up right for you. I run 3000s with extra plastic, and feel that's about right for what I do here in interior. If you plan to buy a tail ski, spend the extra for a Burl's Magnum. Buy right, buy once.
Welcome to the club. 8)
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Last edited by denalipilot on Tue May 12, 2015 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tue May 12, 2015 10:30 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Having experience with all three gear (early, lady, and 180) on a C170, I would not hesitate to add them. It would be one of the first things I would do and I would not put it off. Just makes such a much better airplane off airport.

I also agree with Rob though... BAS harness and tailpull first, then 8042, then brakes and at least 8.5x6s, and then legs... Sportsman would be shortly thereafter.

Good thread about mods here: http://cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9270

Rob has a great thread on his C170 build on this site somewhere.... and here is a thread on the one I owned. http://cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9267

Lots of places to spend your hard earned $$$...
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Tue May 12, 2015 10:52 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Thank you for all the quick responses. The plane is a 1952 model and I believe it is the original main gear. Is there a way to look at the gear to determine if they were replaces with latter 170 gear? I didn't see anything in the log books when I reviewed them a few weeks ago. They are not 180 gear though.

I'm out of State right now, so I don't remember the specifics on the prop I have and don't have the logs to look at. It is not the 8042. It is a re-pitched prop. The previous owner had it re-pitched for use during float operations. He had the plane on floats for a summer. It seems to get the plane of the ground quickly, but I can't compare against an 8042 as I haven't flown one of those. My cruise at 2500 RPM is about 104 mph.

Are those 26" tires in both of the photos above?
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Tue May 12, 2015 10:54 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

If they appear to splay out like a newborn foal they are likely the original. If they have a little more camber at the ankle, they are probably the lady legs. There are specific material thickness values though that you can use to identify them IIRC.
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Tue May 12, 2015 11:08 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

AK Flyster wrote:Are those 26" tires in both of the photos above?

Those are 29" ABWs and BBW on 88A. But I ran 26" Goodyears and a Scott 3200 prior to that. I believe Rob's is photographed on 26" ABWs

Guessing the re-pitched prop started out as a 7653, more-or-less. Would be interesting what it is now. The change from a 7653 to an 8042 costs you some speed, but gets off and climbs a lot better. Rob was more disciplined about posting some actual numbers when he did his.
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Last edited by denalipilot on Tue May 12, 2015 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue May 12, 2015 11:09 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

From the Landing Gear Works
Main Landing Gear Identification

The gear you have can be identified dimensionally. If removed it is easy, if installed, then the best method is by reviewing this information.

The early 170 gear
PN 0541114 applicable thru SN 25611
is interchangeable R&L.
is interchangeable R&L.
a hole is drilled through the center of the gear leg for the brake line clip, or dual dimples are used to secure either type of brake line clip.
both gear leading and trailing edges are symmetrical from the upper bend and tapering to the axle attach boss.
thickness is 5/8 but varies from .640 to .685
the gear comes straight out and down to the axle attach on a straight line, also referred to as wheels aft.
the weight is 29-30 lbs per leg.

The late 170B gear
PN 0541118-2 and 0541118-3 sn 25612 and on
-2 is right and -3 is left
a dimple is used to support the brake line clip
the gear has a straight leading edge facing forward
the thickness is 11/16 but varies from .665 to .685
the inside dimension from the center of the upper bend to the narrow end is approx 34-1/2"
the narrowest point of the gear measured just above the axle attach boss is 1-1/2"
the gear comes straight out and down to the axle attach on a straight line, also referred to as wheels aft.
the weight is 29-30 lbs per leg.

Early Cessna 180 gear (used on 170’s)
PN 0741001-1, 0741001-2, 0741001-3, and 0741001-4
-1 and -3 are left and -2 and -4 are right
a dimple is used to support the brake line clip
the gear has a straight leading edge facing forward
the thickness is 11/16 but varies from .665 to .685
the inside dimension from the center of the upper bend to the narrow end is approx 36"
the narrowest point of the gear measured just above the axle attach boss is 1-7/8"
on the -1 and -2 the gear comes straight out and down to the axle attach on a straight line, also referred to as wheels aft.
on the -3 and -4 the gear comes out angled forward and down to the axle approx 2-3" as compared to the -1 &-2, also referred to as wheels forward.
the weight is 32-33 lbs per leg.
All the gear have serial numbers. The 170 gear will have a letter followed by numbers like Z345 while the early 180 gear will have a letter number mix like 1Y345. Later years went to the 6 digit serial number like 801123 The serial numbers are on the end or the inside of the axle attach area.

Late Cessna 180/185 steel gear
PN 0741001-5, 0741001-6, 0741001-7, and 0741001-8 , and approved STC SA00800SE. PN PP0741001-7 PP0741001-8. (PMA Pending – The Landing Gear Works)

-5 and -7 are left and -6 and -8 are right
the gear has a straight leading edge facing forward
the thickness is .750 but varies from .745 to .760
the inside dimension from the center of the upper bend to the narrow end is approx 36"
the narrowest point of the gear measured just above the axle attach boss is 1-7/8"
on the -5, 6, -7 and -8 the gear comes out angled forward and down to the axle approx 2-3" as compared to the -1 &-2, also referred to as wheels forward.
the weight is 36-37 lbs per leg.


And yes, 26" AKBWS on my plane. I've found them more than adequate for 99% of the off airport sites I've landed. I run them at 8psi for off airport.
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Tue May 12, 2015 11:49 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

I did the early 180 legs on mine, good as new set from Tom Anderson. Very glad I did, but as said, doesn't need to be priority, but maybe before you put the skiis on???
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Tue May 12, 2015 11:52 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

AK Flyster wrote:I recently purchased a 170B with stock landing gear, O-300, and 8.00x6 tires. I'm located in Southcentral Alaska and I've flow off airport some in a Maule M5 wtih 8.5x10s in the past. I'd like to expand my off airport work to include landing on gravel bars, ridges, beaches, and I have a pair of 2500 strait skis I plan on putting it on this winter. It currently has steel axles and single puck brakes.

How important is it to get the 180 gear and which tires/wheels do I need? Cost is always a concern, but I realize making any change will cost some and I'm ready to pay what I need to. I've heard mixed messages from several people about if I need the 180 gear or not? How important is it that I get the 180 gear?

For those around AK, places I plan to fly would include the Kinik Valley, Montegue, Polly Creek, Kustatan, Susitna duck flats, South Wrangles NPS strips, Alaska Range and Talkeetna range strips.

Thanks for your input.


I agree with all of the feedback here.

Double puck brakes are a necessity for any tire larger than 8.00 x 6. TW spring upgrade is more important than MLG spring upgrade. I have never heard of a MLG leg break and put the "lady legs" on my 54B through hell, but broke a TW spring in a remote location and it resulted a bit of an ordeal $. Thrust is the greatest challenge with Continental 145 powered Cessnas and I have heard that the 80 inch seaplane prop makes a tremendous difference. Sportsman STOL is an excellent upgrade.

IMHO, the single best thing that one can do to make the 170 a good backcountry ship is to keep it light. I flew around for years operating 100-150 lbs under gross and the extra weight on board presented far more challenges than any design deficiency.
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Tue May 12, 2015 12:05 pm

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Scolopax wrote:IMHO, the single best thing that one can do to make the 170 a good backcountry ship is to keep it light. I flew around for years operating 100-150 lbs under gross and the extra weight on board presented far more challenges than any design deficiency.

Words of wisdom right there. By the way, AK Flyster, there is a 170 group within this site that has some good participation. Welcome to BCP, by the way.
-Denalipilot
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Tue May 12, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Scolopax wrote:IMHO, the single best thing that one can do to make the 170 a good backcountry ship is to keep it light. I flew around for years operating 100-150 lbs under gross and the extra weight on board presented far more challenges than any design deficiency.


You also had the lady legs-- a big improvement. I don't think these mods are mutually exclusive with an operational philosophy of keeping it light weight, though; it's just a good thing to keep in mind. Sportsman adds a negligible amount.

If one has the opportunity, strip as much unused crap out of the panel as possible like Rob did. Operate without the rear seat. Get some modern lightweight upholstery. Next thing you know you're starting a thread here with photos of your scrap interior piled up.

But you're right-- weight is a huge deal!
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Tue May 12, 2015 12:55 pm

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Ak Flyster,

If you feel like spending thousands of dollars, hundreds of hours labor, and several months of downtime then here is a thread for some motivation. :lol:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/ ... -air-14063
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Tue May 12, 2015 1:05 pm

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

robw56 wrote:It always did just fine in a lot of different off airport environments. I'm not sure if I would want the 180 legs or not, they're stiffer so wouldn't they transmit more stress and vibrations to the fuselage? I would like them for the added prop clearance and increased angle of attack in the 3 point attitude though.


The reason I like the stiffer legs is probably to address the ground handling and bounce resistance. I always tried as hard as I could to really grease it on smooth with the soft legs to avoid the spring-induced bounce. Maybe that was a lack of skill on my part to suffer those effects. They certainly cushioned the bumps a little, but after flying one with 180 legs I came to the conclusion they just make the aircraft feel "tighter" and more precise during ground handling, in addition to the little extra prop clearance.
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Tue May 12, 2015 2:26 pm

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Zzz wrote:[... they just make the aircraft feel "tighter" and more precise during ground handling, in addition to the little extra prop clearance.


This is really the root of it. Those that have stock gear will say they are just fine, and I guess in some way they are right because they have not flown the A/C w/ the stiffer gear. Black and white seemed to work just fine for Dorthy in the first few min of the movie... Kansas was just Kansas.
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Tue May 12, 2015 4:24 pm

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

I wouldn't think it be a huge priority over some of the other mods the guys are suggesting. Especially if you run a tire that can soak up a lot of the abuse. It'd be a nice thing to keep an eye out for a good deal on a set tho.
I have 185 legs on my 180. Almost went back to 180 legs but ended up liking them fine w 29's. I have only ever been glad I had them once. And they saved my ass big time. You can see my major f up on any of the Texas round up threads. (Can't get my tapatalk to work to repost the pic).
If you don't plan on dropping your plane out of the sky from 20ft you should be fine. :lol:
As far as the legs just breaking from normal to heavy use, I don't think it'd be a problem if they're in good shape.
If you have the means for it, it'd say go for it tho for all the reasons posted.
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Tue May 12, 2015 5:32 pm

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Two things that early 180 gear does for you in a 170:

Stiffer gear. The early 170 gear is weak. Not weak like it'll break on you, but weak in that it gives at the most I opportune times. You think that doesn't put stress on the frame??? Try a good crosswind in an off airport environ.......

Second: AOA.....that's Angle of Attack. NOTHING else you'll do to that 170 will increase the angle of attack for takeoff. So, you install a Sportsman kit? You still need AOA to make that kit really sing. Great kit, but it begs for AOA sitting on the ground.

I hate the early 170 gear. As noted, though, the Cessna 170 tailspring is an absolute POS, so whatever you do, go to a L 19 main spring at the least in the tail. You will bust that stock main leaf at some point.

Early 180 gear would be fairly high on my list for mods for a 170. AOA rules on takeoff.

Sit down and develop a mod plan, and decide what you can afford, and in what sequence. Then start looking for parts.

MTV
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Tue May 12, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

mtv wrote: NOTHING else you'll do to that 170 will increase the angle of attack for takeoff.


Bushwheels will.
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Wed May 13, 2015 12:55 am

Re: 180 gear for Cessna 170B

Get the 180 gear AND get the PPONK gear beef up kit. It's $275 and worth every penny.
Don't leave the paved airport environment without it :D

170's RULE - skywagons drool.

That's for you Hren!
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