Dog is my Copilot wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:Any chance of a better picture or two on how the Garmin is mounted within the yoke, it looks slick.

Mapleleaf,


Took these photos today. Hope this gives you a good enough idea regarding the setup. Cable comes from behind the left panel. I didn't check to see if it had its own circuit breaker. I will look tomorrow.





Pretty fun day training. I feel like the 170 flies so lightly compared with a 180/185. More like the 120/140 than the 180/185. I actually flew my plane for a test flight after its annual today in between some training in the 170. It felt like a heavy truck after flying its little brother the last week.


Josh

You’re absolutely right on the light feel of the 170. Pilots used to remark to me how heavy the controls are in the 206 compared to the 185, my response was always that the 185 felt like a truck compared to the 170.

I always assumed most of that had to do with weight of the plane, but my current 175 has much heavier control forces than a 170. Go figure.

MTV

Dog is my Copilot wrote:

StillLearning wrote:Visors and door stewards? I guess we have different priorities!!!!

Rosen Visors keep it cool in the cabin. And the door stewards prevent the doors from blowing off when it is windy.

Let me save your friend a big wad of cash. For roughly $25 one can buy a four pack of Kinder Fluff moveable window shades. You’ll find them on Amazon. The pack will include two that are opaque and two that are semi-transparent. They stick to the windshield and can be moved around as needed. They are far more versatile than Rosens, and a tiny fraction of the cost. Plus, they’re more effective.

I have Rosens in the plane I’m presently flying, and they’re less than great because they don’t have the adjustability that is needed (they can’t reach a lot of places on the windshield). So you end up clipping pieces of cardboard to them in order to block out the sun.

Then run down to your favorite auto parts store and for roughly $15 buy a two pack of opaque windshield screens for a small car. Use these in the windshield when the plane is parked.

The cost of door stewards can be avoided by a) parking into the wind and b) being cognizant of the wind direction whenever the doors are being opened. Really, that’s all it takes to avoid having the doors blown backwards. I’ve seen dozens and dozens and dozens of Cessnas operated commercially, meaning that they fly over 1000 hours/year and the doors are being opened many thousands of times per year, and none of them have door stewards. Your friend should be fine without them as long as they do a) and b) above.

PA12_Pilot wrote:

Dog is my Copilot wrote:

StillLearning wrote:Visors and door stewards? I guess we have different priorities!!!!

Rosen Visors keep it cool in the cabin. And the door stewards prevent the doors from blowing off when it is windy.

Let me save your friend a big wad of cash. For roughly $25 one can buy a four pack of Kinder Fluff moveable window shades. You’ll find them on Amazon. The pack will include two that are opaque and two that are semi-transparent. They stick to the windshield and can be moved around as needed. They are far more versatile than Rosens, and a tiny fraction of the cost. Plus, they’re more effective.

I have Rosens in the plane I’m presently flying, and they’re less than great because they don’t have the adjustability that is needed (they can’t reach a lot of places on the windshield). So you end up clipping pieces of cardboard to them in order to block out the sun.

Then run down to your favorite auto parts store and for roughly $15 buy a two pack of opaque windshield screens for a small car. Use these in the windshield when the plane is parked.

The cost of door stewards can be avoided by a) parking into the wind and b) being cognizant of the wind direction whenever the doors are being opened. Really, that’s all it takes to avoid having the doors blown backwards. I’ve seen dozens and dozens and dozens of Cessnas operated commercially, meaning that they fly over 1000 hours/year and the doors are being opened many thousands of times per year, and none of them have door stewards. Your friend should be fine without them as long as they do a) and b) above.

I agree on the shades. My current plane has Rosens, and I sure wouldn’t recommend them.

But, your argument about commercial users is a bit flawed. It’s true, of course, but not particularly relevant to the 170 discussion.

Most if not all the Cessnas in commercial service actually came equipped with a device in the doors to limit opening and provide protection from wind damage. Now, I’ve flown 185s with these devices removed so that the door comes off with the two door hinge pins, and I know some who like that, but I do not.

The 170 has a door Stop, mounted under wing, such that it stops the door (barely) from hitting the strut, with a built in “catch” in the door to keep the door open. A couple of issues with those:

1. They are very old, most are badly worn and/or bent.

2. They weren’t very effective in the first place, which is why Cessna replaced them with in-door limiters.

3. If wind catches the door, there is nothing to stop the door from slamming into that latch, and potentially damaging it and the strut, which is next in line.

4. Wouldn’t it be nice to actually be able to park facing into the wind at all times? Won’t happen.

So, what the Door Steward offers is a pneumatic buffer to slow that door down as it opens, and to hold the door open when it’s not latched shut, meaning the door doesn’t bang back and forth.

My first set of Door Stewards broke in a wind, when the plane rocked and a door popped open. The company replaced the end fittings with much stronger pieces, when I had a chat with them at OSH.

Oh, and by the way, later model Cessna door latches are MUCH more positive in holding doors shut than the 170 latches. My 170 latches were replaced with late Cessna 150 latches, which were MUCH more positive.

And in later Cessnas, with a baggage door, I’ve cammed the co pilot door over to secure it, close the pilot door, then crawl in through the baggage door to cam over the pilot latch. Now doors won’t open if plane rocks in wind.

Also confuses plane burglars….picking the door lock doesn’t help….

MTV

MTV

I like my Door Stewards on my 170 in the summer, since they keep the doors from repeatedly swinging shut while loading and unloading cargo. Like MTV says, my factory door stops under the wing were blown out a long time prior to my ownership. It's still easy enough to pop the Door Steward pistons loose from the A pillar and pull the door hinge pins for loading bigger cargo. My issue with Door Stewards is in the winter, when it takes them nearly a minute to fully open in our ambient temps.

I for sure like my Rosen visors better than the factory visors. I just think it's a bit ridiculous when a sale listing mentions Rosens in the same breath as TTAF and SMOH. C'mon, really?

BTW, there's a clean install of Door Stewards that uses a second (third, actually) mounting point on the trailing inside edge of the door, aft of the spec'd one. It gives you a built-in stowage option for the piston when removing the door, so the piston isn't left to flop around. Or a place to keep the piston in cold wx ops.

My .02,

-DP

denalipilot wrote:I like my Door Stewards on my 170 in the summer, since they keep the doors from repeatedly swinging shut while loading and unloading cargo. Like MTV says, my factory door stops under the wing were blown out a long time prior to my ownership. It's still easy enough to pop the Door Steward pistons loose from the A pillar and pull the door hinge pins for loading bigger cargo. My issue with Door Stewards is in the winter, when it takes them nearly a minute to fully open in our ambient temps.

I for sure like my Rosen visors better than the factory visors. I just think it's a bit ridiculous when a sale listing mentions Rosens in the same breath as TTAF and SMOH. C'mon, really?

BTW, there's a clean install of Door Stewards that uses a second (third, actually) mounting point on the trailing inside edge of the door, aft of the spec'd one. It gives you a built-in stowage option for the piston when removing the door, so the piston isn't left to flop around. Or a place to keep the piston in cold wx ops.

My .02,

-DP

So, you're talking about essentially reversing the whole gadget, and mounting another attachment to the rear, so you can pop it off the forward fitting and stow it on the aft one?? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cold weather is tough on everything. I'm pretty glad that nobody expects me to fly at extreme cold temps these days....

MTV

mtv wrote:

denalipilot wrote:BTW, there's a clean install of Door Stewards that uses a second (third, actually) mounting point on the trailing inside edge of the door, aft of the spec'd one. It gives you a built-in stowage option for the piston when removing the door, so the piston isn't left to flop around. Or a place to keep the piston in cold wx ops.

My .02,

-DP

So, you're talking about essentially reversing the whole gadget, and mounting another attachment to the rear, so you can pop it off the forward fitting and stow it on the aft one?? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cold weather is tough on everything. I'm pretty glad that nobody expects me to fly at extreme cold temps these days....

MTV

Precisely. Props for coming up with a clearer description of what I was trying to say.

denalipilot wrote:I like my Door Stewards on my 170 in the summer, since they keep the doors from repeatedly swinging shut while loading and unloading cargo. Like MTV says, my factory door stops under the wing were blown out a long time prior to my ownership. It's still easy enough to pop the Door Steward pistons loose from the A pillar and pull the door hinge pins for loading bigger cargo. My issue with Door Stewards is in the winter, when it takes them nearly a minute to fully open in our ambient temps.

I for sure like my Rosen visors better than the factory visors. I just think it's a bit ridiculous when a sale listing mentions Rosens in the same breath as TTAF and SMOH. C'mon, really?

BTW, there's a clean install of Door Stewards that uses a second (third, actually) mounting point on the trailing inside edge of the door, aft of the spec'd one. It gives you a built-in stowage option for the piston when removing the door, so the piston isn't left to flop around. Or a place to keep the piston in cold wx ops.

My .02,

-DP

Never seen that effect with the door stewards. I am guessing it has to be really cold. One thing I love about living west of the Cascades is it just never gets that cold around here. I must admit my cold weather operations are pretty much non-existent. Below 32 F I don't start my engine. It does get cloudy and dreary but doesn't seem to bother me. Winter flying in my neck of the woods is scud running and IFR practice.

The door stewards just seem like cheap insurance. Especially since passengers pretty much treat airplane doors like car doors. KTTD is just a windy place and it makes sense especially at this airport. I don't trust passengers to use the door stops in her 170. My door stewards came in handy a month ago after landing at Hood River. Wind was nuking hard and couldn't find a parking spot facing into the wind. Those door stewards likely saved some damaged when my passenger opened the door.


Josh

I have a '53 B. Nothing much new to be said, but here are a few. These are all things I did with my 170 (again, some of this is mission-dependent).

-BAS harnesses a must. Furthermore, get the utility "seaplane" or rotary buckles. Don't get the standard buckle. While easiest to use, also can mean your arms/shoulders get tangled in the belts in a quick egress scenario, since the lap / shoulder pieces are connected. I have the utility buckles and love them

-Convert fuses to circuit breakers and upgrade all of the old wiring

-Solid alum or steel axles

-I upgraded the generator to an alternator and put in the B&C push button starter in replacement of the old pull tractor starter

-Fly the snot out of it

-Join the 170 association if not yet already. It's a must, purely even for the resources available

-Join the 170 association if not yet already. It's a must, purely even for the resources available

I'll be honest my experience with this group of "enthusiasts" was mostly negative. They seem to feel that many of the "upgrades" that the BCP community value might adversely impact on their almost fanatical cause of maintaining the Mighty 170 in a "virginal" configuration.

Mapleflt wrote:-Join the 170 association if not yet already. It's a must, purely even for the resources available

I'll be honest my experience with this group of "enthusiasts" was mostly negative. They seem to feel that many of the "upgrades" that the BCP community value might adversely impact on their almost fanatical cause of maintaining the Mighty 170 in a "virginal" configuration.

The Association certainly isn't the free-spirited, can-do, supportive environment that BCP is, but then, what else is, really? That's just one more reason why many of us are here daily, instead of over there. However, one of the tangible benefits of TIC170A is that they have a few STC's that they only make available to members. Last time I renewed it was expressly to get an approval for my already-installed 180 gear, IIRC. They may also have the Autogas STC, which would be another recommended "mod" for this thread, since OP was dealing with an O-300.

-DP

denalipilot wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:-Join the 170 association if not yet already. It's a must, purely even for the resources available

I'll be honest my experience with this group of "enthusiasts" was mostly negative. They seem to feel that many of the "upgrades" that the BCP community value might adversely impact on their almost fanatical cause of maintaining the Mighty 170 in a "virginal" configuration.

The Association certainly isn't the free-spirited, can-do, supportive environment that BCP is, but then, what else is, really? That's just one more reason why many of us are here daily, instead of over there. However, one of the tangible benefits of TIC170A is that they have a few STC's that they only make available to members. Last time I renewed it was expressly to get an approval for my already-installed 180 gear, IIRC. They may also have the Autogas STC, which would be another recommended "mod" for this thread, since OP was dealing with an O

-DP

Likewise, it’s a no brainer.

I put door stewards on my 170B back in 2019, love them! As for the 170 Assoc, I've been a member since 2008 when I bought mine. They are a wealth of information, just like BCP. Some of the guys like original, some like the upgrades. Haven't noticed any ill will toward people that like going off the pavement. All-in-all, I keep thinking of moving "up" but, my 170 does 90% of what I need

Mapleflt wrote:-Join the 170 association if not yet already. It's a must, purely even for the resources available

I'll be honest my experience with this group of "enthusiasts" was mostly negative. They seem to feel that many of the "upgrades" that the BCP community value might adversely impact on their almost fanatical cause of maintaining the Mighty 170 in a "virginal" configuration.

I actually haven't joined the association but Sonia did. There is a lot of useful information on the site. Plus we needed the STC paperwork for the O-300D engine - which they had. I have also found some good threads about operating tips on their website. I don't mind free spirited debates. As long as they are civil.


Josh

I’m sure the intentions of 170 Association are meaningful and I agree they offer a wealth of information. I just felt they “frowned” against what I envisioned using my 170 for. Thankfully in stumbled across the BCP site, it more than makes up for that in spades.

…

As a long time 170 owner and Association member don't mistake the opinion of a few members and particularly one of the moderators Gahorn (George Horn) as those of the Association. The availability of documentation and technical information from the Association is unequaled and though I often disagree with Gahorn, he as the Association maintenance specialist, always is responsive to requests. Just one 170 owners opinion.

Tim

bat443 wrote:As a long time 170 owner and Association member don't mistake the opinion of a few members and particularly one of the moderators Gahorn (George Horn) as those of the Association. The availability of documentation and technical information from the Association is unequaled and though I often disagree with Gahorn, he as the Association maintenance specialist, always is responsive to requests. Just one 170 owners opinion.

Tim

I think I read once that the majority of the Association wasn't even on the forum, likely due to the demographic being much older and less tech-adoptive. I recognize the vast wealth of knowledge collectively and the willingness to archive it in some official manner, I learned a lot. But I have to admit that Gahorn spoiled the experience for me. Clashed with Bruce as well after that stage was set. I'm sure many would comment the same about their experience here with me at BCP (sorry) so the cycle of tribalism and silo-ization continues on.

But Tim, I'm glad you're still here! I will say, connecting with people privately outside the public forum really goes a long way to establishing real relationships.

PA12_Pilot wrote:

Dog is my Copilot wrote:

StillLearning wrote:Visors and door stewards? I guess we have different priorities!!!!

Rosen Visors keep it cool in the cabin. And the door stewards prevent the doors from blowing off when it is windy.

Let me save your friend a big wad of cash. For roughly $25 one can buy a four pack of Kinder Fluff moveable window shades. You’ll find them on Amazon. The pack will include two that are opaque and two that are semi-transparent. They stick to the windshield and can be moved around as needed. They are far more versatile than Rosens, and a tiny fraction of the cost. Plus, they’re more effective.

I have Rosens in the plane I’m presently flying, and they’re less than great because they don’t have the adjustability that is needed (they can’t reach a lot of places on the windshield). So you end up clipping pieces of cardboard to them in order to block out the sun.

Then run down to your favorite auto parts store and for roughly $15 buy a two pack of opaque windshield screens for a small car. Use these in the windshield when the plane is parked.

The cost of door stewards can be avoided by a) parking into the wind and b) being cognizant of the wind direction whenever the doors are being opened. Really, that’s all it takes to avoid having the doors blown backwards. I’ve seen dozens and dozens and dozens of Cessnas operated commercially, meaning that they fly over 1000 hours/year and the doors are being opened many thousands of times per year, and none of them have door stewards. Your friend should be fine without them as long as they do a) and b) above.

Now if you do want to blow that wad

These work pretty well too


https://jet-shades.com/product-category/propeller/

https://www.wagaero.com/restoration/ven ... ators.html


My buddy who has a C120 used these vents on his windows. Cooled down the airplane considerably. This seems like a cheap and easy to install modification. Is there any downside other than maybe needing to replace the glass a little sooner. Cheaper than Rosens. You'd think you wouldn't need to worry about getting hot in an airplane in Oregon but surprisingly the 170 is a little roasty. The air vents work okay but not so great in the pattern at lower speeds. Considering it for my 180 too. Curious if others have tried them and recommend them.


Josh

Dog is my Copilot wrote:https://www.wagaero.com/restoration/vents/retractable-3-1-4-snap-vent-ventilators.html


My buddy who has a C120 used these vents on his windows. Cooled down the airplane considerably. This seems like a cheap and easy to install modification. Is there any downside other than maybe needing to replace the glass a little sooner. Cheaper than Rosens. You'd think you wouldn't need to worry about getting hot in an airplane in Oregon but surprisingly the 170 is a little roasty. The air vents work okay but not so great in the pattern at lower speeds. Considering it for my 180 too. Curious if others have tried them and recommend them.


Josh

The concern for me is drilling the holes in your windows.