Cary wrote:I sincerely hope that you'll take my and others' comments in this thread to heart.
Cary

Thanks, Cary. I do learn from constructive comments, of course. And nothing what you have said is completely new or surprising to me. We did have a safety margin and made use of it.

CFOT wrote:Nice job! It would have taken an experienced pilot 10 practice approaches and 4 go-arounds in an empty airplane to pull that off. Even then, the experienced pilot probably would have wussed out. Congratulations, you are now an experienced pilot!

Thanks a lot, CFOT!! We overflew once and I did walk the runway up and down, if that counts...

The take-off 10 minutes later looked a bit smoother:

That landing.... probably not the right decision in hindsight?

I just watched someone who deserved to bend metal (or break fibreglass) getting away with murder. I've been there too, I've done exactly what you show in the video, so I can speak for myself here.

Personally, I am still training myself off those same bad habits. To start with I got bolder when I got away with "tight" landings like this, but you can't get away with it forever. Eventually there was no more room for error. Soon enough I had some terrifically close calls, closer than this video shows. I got pretty lucky on one occasion. I am still wise-ing up and learning from my mistakes, experience builds better judgement.

I wouldn't allow the jovial comments buoy your enthusiasm too much or make you bolder, unless you can afford to buy a new aeroplane! Like they say, you are more experienced now - but you have to learn from the experience to get wiser

Thanks for sharing the video, it's a good reminder.

Lots of good advice given here, you are the only one that knows if you should land it again. The first time landing a spot is the most dangerous.
Used to see a lot more videos here of pilots pushing their limits.....I think naysayers have slowed those who want to share.
Have fun & be careful, and keep the vids coming!

Terry wrote:Used to see a lot more videos here of pilots pushing their limits.....I think naysayers have slowed those who want to share.

Or... Hopefully the constructive feedback is helping everyone to remember to fly within their personal limits, create a safety culture, keep our insurance premiums low and families happy

As the line says at the bottom of all my posts:

It is better to be LATE in this world than to be EARLY into the next.

I have a very high risk tolerence. I fly, ride motorcycles on and off road (used to race when I was younger), climb mountains etc.

With that said unless I am saving a life or going to be paid big bucks (never going to happen ) to land on some risky spot I'm going to pass it up.

I enjoy flying challenges, but with my mere human abilities and modestly powered airplane the risk/benefit ratio is not there for me to prang an expensive piece of fragile aluminum (not to mention myself).

Everyone's abilities and equipment and risk threshold is different and I respect that.

Looked good to me.

gbflyer wrote:Looked good to me.

I wish this forum had a "Like"-button

.

The Aeroprakt A22 won't have any problems with that strip. Showed that here. Once he gets the approach speed down he should only be using half of that. Come to Oshkosh or Sun-N-Fun and watch me take off in 75 to 125' and land in under 300. Less IF I approach just above stall. Yuriy the designer of the airplane showed me two landings last year, two up, half fuel =15 gallons and he was able to land and turn off under 100' from touchdown point. Solo you can see on the web he has done it in far less. Give that video pilot credit, he did OK and will get better with practice. These airplanes are far more capable than most realize. They compare to most back country cubs other than I can't land in big boulders or carry as much gear. Our tire size does pose a limitation, but for all other back country and STOL operations they are excellent in the LSA category. I love to go and fly the back country Arkansas airstrips with my friends in their Carbon Cubs, Savage Cubs and big tired Maule's and Citabria's. Anywhere they go I have not had any problems even doing it two up when they usually strip everything out of theirs. I give up some 30-40 take off distance but then again I only have 100HP. Fly Safe my Friends.

Aeroprakt USA wrote:The Aeroprakt A22 won't have any problems with that strip. Showed that here. Once he gets the approach speed down he should only be using half of that. Come to Oshkosh or Sun-N-Fun and watch me take off in 75 to 125' and land in under 300. Less IF I approach just above stall. Yuriy the designer of the airplane showed me two landings last year, two up, half fuel =15 gallons and he was able to land and turn off under 100' from touchdown point. Solo you can see on the web he has done it in far less. Give that video pilot credit, he did OK and will get better with practice. These airplanes are far more capable than most realize. They compare to most back country cubs other than I can't land in big boulders or carry as much gear. Our tire size does pose a limitation, but for all other back country and STOL operations they are excellent in the LSA category. I love to go and fly the back country Arkansas airstrips with my friends in their Carbon Cubs, Savage Cubs and big tired Maule's and Citabria's. Anywhere they go I have not had any problems even doing it two up when they usually strip everything out of theirs. I give up some 30-40 take off distance but then again I only have 100HP. Fly Safe my Friends.

Thanks! So what you are saying is: "if over the fence @30kts, ground roll is under 100ft"?

That a pretty cool looking plane, it looks real low drag but has a pretty good sized wing, neat. Its amazing how coming in a little slower can really make a big difference in the roll out, and that's why I really like VG's. Slower on short final plus super low speed control, at least on the S7-S.

Under ideal circumstance, that 30 knots and 100'. I've been in the airplane when Yuriy did it. I just figure 200-300 to be safe and I have done that many times at 40 knots/45mph. Practice for it. But 600' should never be a problem even heavy and at 45 knots. And someone was correct, they are pretty clean but with a high lift wing. Think "AN2" plan form, yes, lower wing of the AN2 Russian bi-plane scaled some I think. Light empty weight helps. Full length slotted flaperons so great aileron control all the way through stall. But not much drag added with the flaperons down so learning to keep the speed down on approach takes some discipline. But when done right very STOL airplane. www.aeropraktusa.com is my information here in the USA. I am the importer so any questions you can contact me from the information on the web site. Search youtube for A22 short landing and see Yuriy do it. Remember seeing the video on youtube of that airplane land on the moving ship in the English Channel, well that is the A22LS (Foxbat in Australia).

Try the apparent brisk walk rate of closure approach on a long runway and find yourself putting it down slowly and softly on the numbers every time. Then your runway will look less exciting. In preparation for heavier and hotter, try the basic low ground effect takeoff. Both are covered in Safe Maneuvering Flight Techniques (click below.)

Did you plan this or was just an impulse by being tempted?
I ask because Im surprised you tried this with a passenger (more weight) with half tanks (again more weight)


If you want to do very tight strips,you need to plan this stuff in advance.(At least I do)

I recommend you come in as light as possible, just you and 1/4 of fuel, cg aft as much as possible permitted in that airplane.
Also early in the day, at dawn, cooler temps, no wind.
All this makes a lot of difference.

And practice a lot in that plane so you know exactly how will the plane react, you floated a bit and for a short tight strip like that, that's what will put you in trouble, practice to touch down where you want it to touch down, even with obstacles.

I think the strip is very doable for that plane if you plan it ahead and practice to exactly put the wheels where you want, no float, no excess speed.

Its good you come to a place like this to ask, lost of experienced pilots and good advice , I learned a lot and keep learning by asking here.

Mis 2 centavos.

Assuming that the published stall figure (35 mph) is correct, a 45 mph (39-40 knot) approach speed at full gross is right on target. Lighter, obviously the stall speed goes down some and the approach speed can be less. But a 30 knot (35 mph) approach speed, even pretty light, means hanging on the prop right at the power off stall speed, a pretty chancy thing to do, because the slightest hiccup can bring on an immediate stall. So if it were mine, I'd stick with 45 mph, maybe a couple needle's width slower if running light.

FWIW, when I first started mostly lurking before participating on BCP, I was bothered by what I perceived to be excessive braggadocio, pilots going into places that their videos hardly disclosed a place to land with roll-outs that barely stopped before the trees or the edge of a cliff, for no better purpose than to prove that they could do it. I'm glad to see that such "super pilot" feats are less the norm today, and that a pro-safety culture seems to be more prevalent these days. About 10 days ago was the 44th anniversary since my first lesson, and in that time, I've known way too many pilots who were the proverbial "accident waiting to happen" because of their unsafe attitudes, and unfortunately many of them have indeed ended their flying careers ingloriously, often enough in a smoking hole.

Lest I start sounding too preachy before I step off my soap box, I'd like to say that I've made some friends on BCP, many only through the site but some in person, and many of them are much better pilots than I'll ever be, some less so. But regardless of their skills, personalities, or other attributes, I really don't want to lose any of them in an air crash. I lost my Daddy in an air crash when I was only 4 1/2 years old, in May 1948, and it's a tragedy which has haunted me all of my life. I would not wish upon any of their families the dramatic and permanent changes that my Ma, my Sis, and I experienced.

Cary

I dare say the only thing he was risking on that PARTICULAR LANDING was some expensive broken shit on the over run. No tragic loss of life and limb. Again, in my opinion, good job not panicking and taking what's in front instead of a late go-around that could have resulted in real disaster. I'm sure the next one will be much prettier. [emoji108]

Edit: and it takes some stones to post up a flying vid for the peanut gallery. Respect.

The level headedness and caution of Cary and MTV and many other instructors on this site are invaluable. Their advice should be heeded, as much as is practicable. Because I worked and taught on the stinky and dangerous side of the field, my advice and techniques are not as standard. Yet, when it comes to recreational flying, I would advise their advice over mine.

That said, I was raised ranching in winter and building golf courses summers with a Dad who worked every sun lighted hour of every fair weather day and had a lot to say about boys. Things like, "A boy is about a boy, two boys about a half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." And, "When boys are having fun, look around. Something is about to happen." I know some boys on here are going to do dangerous things regardless.

Read my book and try the techniques. Your field is a one shot deal. The only safe go around would be before you cut power on touchdown on the numbers. Before takeoff your orientation should be that the engine will quit. Now you are just a little ahead of the aircraft. If before the mains are off and you are flying level in low ground effect below stall speed, abort. If the mains are off and you are accelerating nicely in low ground effect, rudder turn in low ground effect or zoom up to clear the wing and energy management turn to survivable landing zone. You will bend the airplane but there is no need to hurt yourself. I speak from experience. Lots.

I forgot to mention helmet and nomex because I always wear it. Always wear it.

contactflying wrote:The level headedness and caution of Cary and MTV and many other instructors on this site are invaluable. Their advice should be heeded, as much as is practicable. Because I worked and taught on the stinky and dangerous side of the field, my advice and techniques are not as standard. Yet, when it comes to recreational flying, I would advise their advice over mine.

That said, I was raised ranching in winter and building golf courses summers with a Dad who worked every sun lighted hour of every fair weather day and had a lot to say about boys. Things like, "A boy is about a boy, two boys about a half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." And, "When boys are having fun, look around. Something is about to happen." I know some boys on here are going to do dangerous things regardless.

Read my book and try the techniques. Your field is a one shot deal. The only safe go around would be before you cut power on touchdown on the numbers. Before takeoff your orientation should be that the engine will quit. Now you are just a little ahead of the aircraft. If before the mains are off and you are flying level in low ground effect below stall speed, abort. If the mains are off and you are accelerating nicely in low ground effect, rudder turn in low ground effect or zoom up to clear the wing and energy management turn to survivable landing zone. You will bend the airplane but there is no need to hurt yourself. I speak from experience. Lots.

Hell yes.