Something that has come up in conversations I've had with professional (airline) pilots lately, I'd like to pose to this group:

Do you or your coworkers fly for fun on your off time?

I have a very good friend who is a young up and coming airline pilot, he's currently a CRJ captain for a Delta feeder. He has made comment that so many of his coworkers don't want to have anything to do with flying when they are off the clock. They don't and don't want to own airplanes or have anything to do with flying away from the "office". When I was a young man, considering aviation as a career, I found the same reaction when I posed this question to pro pilots.

There was a corporate pilot on my home field with the same attitude. He has since left the profession. He seemed to have no passion what so ever for flying. To him, flying was just like any other job. Punch your time get your paycheck and go home. For someone to go through all of the time, training and commitment (nearly as much as a doctor!) to become a professional pilot and not have any passion for the activity is just beyond me.

I was, and still am, enamored by aviation. It's in my soul. I found it hard to believe that you fly for a living, clock out at the end of your day and not be interested any further.


Thoughts?

I'm not a pro but I like the question so...

I have exactly two friends IRL that are pro's. One is a 737 Captain for AA, the other flies corporate charters, G5's and 6's. The 737 guy loves to fly. He flies ultralights when he's not at work. He likes the pure grassroots joy kind of flying. Wind in your face bugs in your teeth thing. The corporate guy says he wants to buy a plane some day. Known him for 20 years and he's talked about buying a cub for about that long. Never wants to go flying with me (I'm trying not to take that personally ) just wants to hang around and talk about flying.

So, in my experience, some do, some don't.

My father had his pilot fix paid for through his military career. When he retired, Corporate America was there to take him under their 'wing' - his specialty is anything that has "Gulfstream" in the name. I started flying and got my pilot's license on the east coast 15 years ago. Although I have my own career (I'm not really a 'pro'), he has been my guardian angel guiding me into training for several certifications-the Cessna Mustang is my favorite. But I fly right seat with him most of the time when my normal job doesn't keep me busy. I am in Alaska for a several months for work and have decided to get familiar with the famous "supercub" mentality. I have to say I was a bit confused when I didn't see four 14 inch high resolution liquid crystal displays in the cock pit! It is a bit intimidating when you don't have the VGS and PlaneView at your finger tips but I look forward to learning. You really need how to fly an airplane -not just run the computers!! But - most of the corporate pilots think I'm nuts; I don't think they would feel safe without the technology. My observation is I don't see many of them grabbing a ride to Alaska to learn how to land on a glacier, or renting a small plane to fly the back woods of Montana on their spare time. My father is in so many different places all the time in his "retirement" job; going non stop and he has the stress of being responsible for other lives - he really needs to kick back and rest when he's not flying. I'm looking forward to trying; but I have to say it sure is fun to have technology too! Other pro's could probably comment on my theory.

When I first started with the airlines 28 years ago, I had a hard time understanding why any of my fellow pilots would ever want to fly a small plane on their days off.

I would listen in absolute amazement at how many hours they spent polished their silver 185's, how they took their family to Martha's Vineyard, and the worst of all, how they made the annual trek to the mecca of all aviation, Oshkosh.

I remained in this mindset for many years, and then rather recently, I started longing for what made me fall in love with aviation in the first place. I felt I was losing the love of flying altogether, and that the only remedy was to get back to the basics.

Now, I long to land the Boeing so I can take the Maule out to a small dirt strip somewhere.

It has restored my love for flying, and for that I am truly grateful.

Here is a small story I wrote about this experience.

http://maulepilots.org/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=

Been flying for 36 years. Started in GA, flight instructed, flew charter, bank notes, cargo then to the regionals and finally a major. Once I left GA I decided that I didn't want to make a hobby out of my career so stayed away from small aircraft for 20 years. Thennnnnn, a fellow heavy driver/good friend took me up in his Supercub. That ride put the joy back into aviation for me. I bought a Maule and now am fortunate enough to enjoy the entire spectrum of aviation from back country Idaho in the Maule to 2.5 mile long runways in a 747.

Fly the Whale (747) for work and the Wagon (185) for fun and to get me to the fishin hole on my days off. Two different kinds of flying with very little in common. Whale pays the bills and Wagon is the magic carpet to get me to those special places most people are not fortunate enough to experience. I think that a lot of guys flying the line just get burned out due to the intensity of the schedules these days. You really have to want to own a bush airplane with the going cost $$$$$$ of Wagons and Cubs these days. Not just really another toy in the toy box any longer.

I can't wait to get done with my shift as an EMS pilot so I can go flying. I don't know if it is because I fly a helicopter for a living that makes me eager to go flying in a fixed wing tail draggin stress reliever, but I sure do enjoy it. I've been flying since my Dad introduced me to it at age 6 and had the misfortune to be laid up with a broken leg for 4 months last year, which was the longest I have gone without flying in 17 years. My wife can attest to the fact that I get real cranky if I don't fly enough.
On the flip side, my brother who was introduced to flying the same way, has been with United for 15 years now and has little to no interest in flying outside of work. He really doesn't even enjoy talking about flying. I think something is wrong with him. Maybe it's the airline.

When I was a captain in the regionals, most pilots seemingly had no interest in continuing with GA. I left for the corporate world, and now there seems to be even less small plane enthusiasts.

Just as there are many different skill sets in aviation, there are many different avenues for fulfilling an aviators passion. For some, flying for work is enough. I know pilots who love reading SOP's and learning all they can about instrument flight. They would never think to step foot in my 170. Flying the bigger stuff isn't enough for me. Altitude sucks.

Some are burnt out. Some just prefer the commercial aviation environment.

I was fortunate enough to grow up around airplanes. I started in gliders, soloed the family J-3, did the CFI thing and regional flying, and 13 years ago was fortunate enough to be picked up by a major. I've always been involved in GA, but a vast majority of the guys I've flown with haven't flown GA in decades, and some of the ex-military guys have never flown a piston powered airplane. Most guys just dont 'get it', but I have taken a few for Cub rides ("no, seriously, how do you start it?"), and every one of them came away with a huge smile on their face.

It's a shame that more of them aren't involved in GA. They're some of the best pilots I've ever flown with and many would be great mentors in the community.

Cannon wrote:It's a shame that more of them aren't involved in GA. They're some of the best pilots I've ever flown with and many would be great mentors in the community.

x2

The guy who mentored me and lit the flying spark for me just retired last year as the #1 most senior pilot at United Airlines.

He flew a Piper Comanche, and only needed the slightest excuse to take it out. He would look up at the sky with a twinkle in his eye and say, 'looks nice up there, wanna go?' Then he'd have me doing dutch rolls while he put his seat back and put his sock feet over the turn and bank and the altimeter.

From what I know of him, he was the kid who, for his birthday, would ask to go the the observation deck at the airport to watch the takeoffs and arrivals. He went on to graduate from Embry-Riddle. He flew Skydive206's Twin Otter when it belonged to a tiny regional outfit where he was cutting his teeth.

He was one of my first passengers, when the ink on my license was still wet, and I owned a non-electric '41 Taylorcraft. I was honored to give him the controls. I've since been around the high Alaska range with him in a Cessna 206. There was the camping trip to the mountains when I was a kid, when the plane was frosty in the morning so he spent the waiting time explaining all of the flight controls to me. Somewhere I've got his original E-6B that he gave me when I was starting out.

On the airline side of things, he would drop me a note from time to time about how amazing the Autoland on the triple-seven was, or send a photo of Denali from FL340 en route to Asia. Later in his career he voluntarily took on more administrative tasks with his airline. Not because he was tired of flying, but because he had had it so good, that he wanted to give back if there was a way. He was a big part of the successful effort to extend the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots.

Last summer, on his final flight before mandatory retirement, San Francisco approach cleared him to "Descend to 3,000' turn left when overhead the airport, and take a Bay tour". In a triple-seven.

Sorry to be long-winded, but It makes me glad that a guy like that was able to rise to the pinnacle of his field, keeping his passion for aviation in all its forms, and fostering it in others along the way.

-DP

MAU MAU wrote:When I first started with the airlines 28 years ago, I had a hard time understanding why any of my fellow pilots would ever want to fly a small plane on their days off.

I would listen in absolute amazement at how many hours they spent polished their silver 185's, how they took their family to Martha's Vineyard, and the worst of all, how they made the annual trek to the mecca of all aviation, Oshkosh.

I remained in this mindset for many years, and then rather recently, I started longing for what made me fall in love with aviation in the first place. I felt I was losing the love of flying altogether, and that the only remedy was to get back to the basics.

Now, I long to land the Boeing so I can take the Maule out to a small dirt strip somewhere.

It has restored my love for flying, and for that I am truly grateful.

Here is a small story I wrote about this experience.

http://maulepilots.org/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=

MAU MAU...just read your tale linked above...very fun. Sounds like a great plane, looks nice too. If I was rich I'd have one like that, but I'd get some big tires on it.

I also thought it was funny that you flew it IFR the whole way home. My brother said if he had a plane he'd fly IFR back east all the time anyway because it is easier.

3 out of 12 fly GA. Guess who have the best non-autopilot skills, IMHO.
Dave

d.grimm wrote:3 out of 12 fly GA. Guess who have the best non-autopilot skills, IMHO.
Dave

I wonder what the statistics would look like broken down by age? For some reason I suspect the older the professional pilot is, they are more likely to fly for fun. I base my theory on being based at an airfield that is the flight training base for a University Aviation program. Just anecdotal evidence from interacting with two groups of pilots...the students and the old farts that hang around the airport and fly for fun.

Been at it since 1971, in Europe you followed in your father’s occupation. In my case grandpa and dad were both pilots so no deviating for me.
I’ll tell you a few reasons why many of my buddies pro pilots don’t get involved in GA:
Have you checked the salary and insecurity of the profession?
The cost of operating a GA airplane and of raising a family at the same time?
Wife? Explain that after being away all over the world you are now going flying with your buddies while she continues to look after the kids and maintain the house.
I managed to do it but she was very supportive even when my mother told her not to marry a pilot!
And the biggest hurdle of them all...General aviation flying is HARD WORK...!!! VFR flying, No F/O do you own walk around, no one comes from the back with cookies and coffee, no marshals, park and tie down your airplane yourself, having to pay for hangar space, sleep in the grass strip terminal until the weather clears...miss anything? Oh yeah pay for your fuel....
Cheers, going flying...

This guy sure seems to have fun when he's not flying for Southwest...

I fly whale's for a paycheck and light planes for therapy. I fly with a lot of pilots that have no interest in flying for fun. I will always relish my time in my champ where I decide the time it takes off, the destination and when it lands and not have to make excuses to some dispatcher on my delay code and why I did what I did. Building a Bearhawk Patrol for shop therapy. I could go on and on with multiple reasons but every poster has made their points. My favorite big iron destination is Anchorage, where I get to be among lots of cool airplanes during layovers. Soon to retire from 121 flying and I'm sure I will miss it.

rw2 wrote:This guy sure seems to have fun when he's not flying for Southwest...

Good find, Thanks

I've had a similar experience with military pilots. Out of a squadron of almost 40 pilots I was the only one that owned a plane. Two guys liked to rent a plane on occasion but I never thought they flew that often. During my last few months before moving to another duty station another GA fanatic checked in. She didn't own a plane but had friends that did.

Most guys I talked to didn't understand the appeal of flying on the weekends. After flying 20 hours in a week most just wanted to go home and think about something else. To me, flying my little plane was therapy. Heading to Big Bear, Palm Springs, or Agua Caliente for an afternoon made my weekend. Flying for a living is fun, but I'd say that I only get about 30% of the enjoyment per flight hour that I do in my GA aircraft. Not everyone gets that boost out of flying GA.

I fly for a living and that is how I pay for the Maule. While I like my job, the company dictates where I go and when. That's just part of the job.
What I like about having my own plane, is that I/we decide where/when/how we want to go. There is a certain value in that which can't be quantified in $$$$.
Some people get this idea, most are part of this forum, but others don't see the value and don't need to. Each to his own.

Years ago I instructed at a flight school churning out airline recruits. Most of the students just wanted to get through the requirements and get into a jet. Some even hated prop planes! I would ask them why they want to be a pilot, most would respond with "because it's fun".
"So go out there and have fun then!" would be my response. They didn't get it.

Variety is the spice of life...and so it should be in pursuit of careers and hobbies.
RR

I have my commercial ticket, but that was only used for a few years while I lost money doing airshow work. I was partners in a Pitts during that time. Most of the other pilots were Alaska Airlines Captains. The guy that put the partnership together was Herb and he was a pilot's pilot. He couldn't get enough of flying and he loved the Pitts. Most of his co-workers from Alaska that bought into the plane just like to hang out with Herb. They didn't fly it very often on their own. They said it was too twitchy - I agreed, but I thought that was the selling point, not the downfall of the plane!

I also had a partnership in a Cessna 182. One of the partners was a Captain for US Air, and he loved to fly the heavy stuff as well as little planes. He even gave a big plane check ride to Ray Maule's daughter (Susan I think). Now I own my own Maule, and keep it at a residential airpark. The hangar next to mine houses an RV-4 that is owned by an airline pilot. So, many in the business also fly for fun, but like any job, not everyone at the office shows up because they have an all consuming passion for the work. All professions have people that hate their work, but feel "trapped" by their obligations and the belief that change isn't possible

I am a LOT happier getting into a commercial jet when I know the pilots in the cockpit love their work and seek to polish all aspects of their flying skills. I'm glad I never know when the pilot of my commercial flight is just there for the paycheck.