the driver of the yellow supercub is a superb pilot...parking it at mile-high because of a part failure seems like...no injuries to either pilot or passenger thankfully. the pilot had raced the baja 1000 over 30 times, and u can consider him tough as nails...have flown with him and he makes a supercub really sing...

I heard it was Obama in a Pietenpol Air Camper Now they are just screwing with our minds!

When I read of incidents at Mile High it at times make me cringe. We all love the access to the wilderness in our aircraft and the easy accessibility the planes bring. If we use these more difficult and challenging airstrips to get a "notch" in our log book, the traffic will increase(it has) and we are sure to bring unwanted attention to ourselves and our activities. When that happens, as the Forest Service looks periodically at the use plans of the wilderness and how it is managed we may find ourselves in a fight. The use of aircraft was written into the law, so the use may not stop but the number of landings could be regulated. The group arrivals of aircraft that happen with each fly in during summer will bring that unwanted attention. Just as we have some great organizations and people fighting for our continued access to the wilderness, there are groups and individuals that look at us as nothing but three wheelers with wings that bring noise and destruction. Just as we need to be careful in our flying, we need to be careful and mindful of how we use the wilderness to keep this great activity available to those in the future who also want to experience a wilderness adventure. Well, my lips are getting tired from reading this.

robertc wrote:When I read of incidents at Mile High it at times make me cringe. We all love the access to the wilderness in our aircraft and the easy accessibility the planes bring. If we use these more difficult and challenging airstrips to get a "notch" in our log book, the traffic will increase(it has) and we are sure to bring unwanted attention to ourselves and our activities. When that happens, as the Forest Service looks periodically at the use plans of the wilderness and how it is managed we may find ourselves in a fight. The use of aircraft was written into the law, so the use may not stop but the number of landings could be regulated. The group arrivals of aircraft that happen with each fly in during summer will bring that unwanted attention. Just as we have some great organizations and people fighting for our continued access to the wilderness, there are groups and individuals that look at us as nothing but three wheelers with wings that bring noise and destruction. Just as we need to be careful in our flying, we need to be careful and mindful of how we use the wilderness to keep this great activity available to those in the future who also want to experience a wilderness adventure. Well, my lips are getting tired from reading this.

Mile High is at the top of my bucket list for next year, for the same reasons people climb to the top of a mountian, raft a river, or horseback into the wilderness.
Better do it while you can, times are changing.

Good advice Robert.

This topic of strip bagging has come up more than once and is one that always intrigues me. Many of those that "bag" Mile High, Vines, Solider Bar, Smiley Creek, Johnson Creek, Denver International Airport, etc, have no real business being there. We simply go there for the challenge, views, people, or experience. Why save that for the future generation if the current generation doesn't feel passionate about these places? I can't say I would have the same passion for ID, UT, CO, MT, etc if I didn't get to experience it first hand.

There is a fine line about use and miss-use. I don't have the answer for that, but I sure hope the .gov doesn't come up with the answer either. Perhaps by everyone doing their part and pitching in, we will leave things as good, if not better, than when we found them. Just plain old stewardship.

When other areas of GA are shrinking, I honestly feel that the back country area is gaining growth. We can use this to our advantage and spread knowledge, safety, and enthusiasm; or tuck it away in our pocket and hope for no harm.

I guess the choice is ours.

IAA won’t l et them forget
Public Law 96-312
The Central Idaho Wilderness Act of 1980
Permitted land uses; continuation.
Aircraft landing.
SEC. 7. (a) Within the River of No Return
Wilderness and the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness
additions designated by this Act-
(1) the landing of aircraft, where this use has
become established prior to the date of enactment
of this Act shall be permitted to continue subject
to such restrictions as the Secretary deems
desirable: Provided, That the Secretary shall not
permanently close or render unserviceable any
aircraft landing strip in regular use on national Our duty to make sure to use regularly
forest lands on the date of enactment of this Act
for reasons other than extreme danger to aircraft,
and in any case not without the express written
concurrence of the agency of the State of Idaho
charged with evaluating the safety of backcountry
airstrips.

Use it or loose it!
To the folks who use but not abuse, more power to you!
I may never fly into some of these places for whatever may be the reason. For those who do, please remember by good stewardship they will remian open for those in the future. Accidents are reality of everyday life, whether it may be Cavanugh Bay ( love to go there) or Mile HI ( may never go there), the skill level, conditions, etc. are never the same. We may pick at the folks whose misfortune we read about, but we were'nt there when it happened. Be careful not to judge too quickly, as you may be judged when your time comes..and it will come..just hope you are around later on that we may all be able hear a personal account...the experience can be very humbling.
HC

Idaho has an amazingly laid back attitude when it comes to about anything. I was thinking about building a cabin once by Lake Pend Oreille and they don't even have building permits! If you can get a septic permit you can build anything you want. I guess a bunch of contractors got voted into office and they did away with them.

Anyway, I had a kid working for me while he was in College. A couple months ago he called to ask if I'd give him a recommendation for an Idaho State Gov. job he was trying to get. He got the job and he basically hikes, flys or drives into areas around the state to determine the best usage for the land. He is a great kid who grew up in Montana and has values a lot like the ones most of us have here. He's an avid hunter and loves spending time in the outdoors so I know he wouldn't shut it down. I've talked to him about the network of Idaho backcountry strips and he seemed impressed. His dad was developing some land and I talked them into putting an airstrip there. As long as Idaho keeps the tree huggers out and decent outdoors types in there I think we're fine. Of course then you look at Sun Valley

...... as you may be judged when your time comes.

On BCP & elsewhere-you WILL be judged-if the past as any indication of the future....

lc

Littlecub wrote:

...... as you may be judged when your time comes.

On BCP & elsewhere-you WILL be judged-if the past as any indication of the future....

lc

If you don't die or get permanently maimed we will get lambasted.

Lord knows I have wrecked everything I have owned. The airplane will too. I almost wrecked it 3 years ago and I would have been dead. I guess the good Lord knows I need more work before I report to Heaven.

Good day

mountainmatt wrote:This topic of strip bagging has come up more than once and is one that always intrigues me. Many of those ......have no real business being there. We simply go there for the challenge, views, people, or experience. Why save that for the future generation if the current generation doesn't feel passionate about these places? I can't say I would have the same passion for ID, UT, CO, MT, etc if I didn't get to experience it first hand

I hope Mile Hi stays open. But let's face it- there is nothing there but a meadow. Access to the region by foot or stock is better either from the Cold Meadows/Chamberlain end of things, or from Cabin Creek or Soldier Bar. Most of the folks who I have met in the years of working back there on foot that were landing there are red-faced winded by the time they walk the 12 steps away from the plane to take a whizz. I've hauled out plastic and cheez whiz canisters, and buried defecations on multiple occasions. I watched one guy on this board have his passenger toss plastic bottles into the air to shoot (and miss every time, leaving his rounds to find a target in the open drainage below), and leave the crap laying there after he left. He knows who he is.

Believe you me, it is rare to find quiet in the major drainages during mid flying season, and this is a huge change from just a couple of decades ago. It is not surprising at all to see a broad segment of the foot, pack, and hunting user base is actively against the aviation use patterns back there.

There are a lot of supporters too- those who use air access as just that- ACCESS- to the backcountry in ways that simply can't be experienced on foot from the periphery.

Bottom line- tread lightly. It's easy. And it preserves the one thing that matters the most: access. That means focusing on airstrips as trail heads, as they are intended. If they are used as mud dunes, the public will want them regulated as such.

That being said, I'm just glad the guy is safe. Not just for him and his family, but for everyone who wants to preserve backcountry aviation.

Anyone know if John just hit the "HELP" button and Lori called 911? Doesn't sound like he hit the "911" button if he refused medical care...

With the increased utilization of the Idaho Backcountry in the face of decreased number of pilots and decreasing number of GA flight hours it seems clear the cause is related to the closure of other areas to this type of activity. Montana, Washington, Oregon, Nevada and Colorado may have the terrain but the politics has funneled everyone to Idaho. In addition to responsible use, we need to keep working on reliever airports in other areas. I think the only way that is going to happen is with situations like Ryan field in Montana.

A quick plug for stewardship. IAA will never get permission for "work parties" in many of these more difficult strips. When you are flying in the backcountry you should have a shovel, saw, etc. Don't just take the time to piss before you take off to head to the next strip. Please take 30 minutes and walk the strip, filling in holes, trimming some trees or shrubs which have grown up, etc. If the smaller trees in the approach areas grow bigger than what can be taken care of with a camp saw, they may cause closure of a strip if the FS can belp it. That "shrub" that we used to land next to at Mile Hi is now a wing scraper. Next one in needs to prune it. Thanks.

lesuther wrote:

mountainmatt wrote:This topic of strip bagging has come up more than once and is one that always intrigues me. Many of those ......have no real business being there. We simply go there for the challenge, views, people, or experience. Why save that for the future generation if the current generation doesn't feel passionate about these places? I can't say I would have the same passion for ID, UT, CO, MT, etc if I didn't get to experience it first hand

I hope Mile Hi stays open. But let's face it- there is nothing there but a meadow. Access to the region by foot or stock is better either from the Cold Meadows/Chamberlain end of things, or from Cabin Creek or Soldier Bar. Most of the folks who I have met in the years of working back there on foot that were landing there are red-faced winded by the time they walk the 12 steps away from the plane to take a whizz. I've hauled out plastic and cheez whiz canisters, and buried defecations on multiple occasions. I watched one guy on this board have his passenger toss plastic bottles into the air to shoot (and miss every time, leaving his rounds to find a target in the open drainage below), and leave the crap laying there after he left. He knows who he is.

Believe you me, it is rare to find quiet in the major drainages during mid flying season, and this is a huge change from just a couple of decades ago. It is not surprising at all to see a broad segment of the foot, pack, and hunting user base is actively against the aviation use patterns back there.

There are a lot of supporters too- those who use air access as just that- ACCESS- to the backcountry in ways that simply can't be experienced on foot from the periphery.

Bottom line- tread lightly. It's easy. And it preserves the one thing that matters the most: access. That means focusing on airstrips as trail heads, as they are intended. If they are used as mud dunes, the public will want them regulated as such.

That being said, I'm just glad the guy is safe. Not just for him and his family, but for everyone who wants to preserve backcountry aviation.

Good comments all. To summarize: Go fly there, but don't be stupid or be a slob.

MTV

all damn good points for sure...i haven't been into mile-high yet, but will soon if john's favorite instructor will ride in with me....

like Rob said, stuff we all do can and will be wrecked. my pro cowboy buddies, the ones that all make a ton of $, call it "pay your damn $ and take your chances". so it goes with back-country planes and other motorized forms of fun and travel. as said before, no reason not to respect the land and such, and don't leave your garbage behind. keep the power and your prop turned down as much as possible. although not a rotax fan, i was impressed at JC how quiet those 912S motors were....and how good they seemed to run...!

having been in and around the frank for a long time, there are more users of all kinds there than we realize. respecting their experience as well will go a long way toward keeping our access...

delete

How would you guys feel about having the Frank Church Wilderness Airstrips included in the State Parks System? Idaho offers a annual pass for $40 for use to the Parks. I was just thinking that if they made some revenue from us or at least we pay our own way as far as garbage removal, strip maintenance etc. They might not be as apt to shut them down. We need us being there, to be a positive thing for the State. Just a thought.

Jaerl,

The Frank Church Wilderness is federally owned, not state owned and is managed by the US Forest Service.

We don't need some "garbage collection service". All we need is to be good citizens and clean up after ourselves. And, if someone left some trash at one of these strips before you got there, maybe pick it up and haul it out yourself.

Most of all, don't give the government any LEGITIMATE reasons to close these strips.

MTV

When we go in from a roaded trail head, we pay fees to camp/provide toilets, etc. It is pretty pricey, and we all complain about it bitterly. Yet the economics are simple and unfortunate. Traffic at a site will increase until the garbage and damage are seriously consequential, and then management is demanded (by the majority of the public, no less) to reduce the harms. This intervention is expensive- figure the overhead for an LEO or forest tech to make a visit as being $11 per hour plus $15 overhead, plus mileage ($0.42/mi for fleet overhead), plus 2-3 $400 toilet crypt pump outs per season, plus $2500 tables that some idiot can't easily shoot up or take home, and...and...we can all see where that goes. It's a tragedy, but it's also very real (and necessary in too many places).

I've watched as user fees have also developed to go well beyond what the original character of a site has been for decades. This means concrete pads, electrical hookups even, waste dumps, etc.- essentially the RV crowd. These extreme makeovers are requested pretty intensely during public comment periods for forest plans. These are users too, but they generally displace the family with a 25 year old sedan and a tent when fees rise incredibly to $15 a day. Truly unfortunate.

Given both extremes on user fees, if $$ becomes the crucial issue, I'm not opposed to paying a "reasonable" fee. One less objection to retaining access, especially if it fairly addresses management issues.

holy cow, did i say "superb" ? how about tons better than average....he lives close by, and visits mile-high weekly...and dont worry about it being closed during elk/wolf season either...i wager that bird will be gone before this weekend given the caliber of individual involved...to me, keeping a "low profile" is sittin' home on the couch...remember, pay your money and take your chances and don't cry about it, especially if someone, or you, happens to make a mistake. 'tis still a free country, and be damn glad we have got Idaho to enjoy. [
[

the driver of the yellow supercub is a superb pilot[/quote]
?
Just stirring the pot. This is not keeping a low profile. I hope they don't close Mile High before wolf/elk season.[/quote]]

Opps..... had to get the quotes in the next post right