qmdv wrote:How is Mile High doing?

Tim

Your a day late, Tim. They are on a whole different subject now

Problem is, what works in New York or Washington DC might not be beneficial in Idaho. But when it comes time to cut budgets, do you think a non-flyer, non-outdoorsman would care about shutting down an area if it meant no more money was needed to maintain it?

Everything is open to interpretation. The Wilderness Act says:

"subject to such restrictions as the Secretary deems
desirable: Provided, That the Secretary shall not
permanently close or render unserviceable any
aircraft landing strip in regular use on national Our
forest lands on the date of enactment of this Act
for reasons other than extreme danger to aircraft,"

Unfortunately we are not the ones who gets to decides what the "restrictions" will be and what exactly "extreme danger" means. Sounds like to me they can put any restrictions and close anything they want. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic but I wouldn't put too much faith in this document protecting any of our rights. The Idaho State Government is probably the best friend we have. Didn't they tell the Feds where to go regarding the Wolves? If we can be a positive force in the area, hopefully it will be ours to use for a long time.

Stol wrote:

Jaerl wrote:I was wrong and MTV was right. I found this in a Forest Service report. Apparently they manage these four strips including Mile High:

have been managed since 1984 for "emergency use only," as prescribed by the 1984 FC-RONR Wilderness Management Plan. That Plan called for no maintenance of these four airstrips."

That clause alone scares me...

And obviously he had an emergency

Damn, I just can't stay out of trouble.

Let me hear what you think about the Park service swooping in with helicopters to burn out long term settlers in the Yukon Charlie Wilderness while they went to town? When Alaska was a territory they were fine, but their homesteads got "upgraded" to National Park status. They were not re-imbursed. Many were lucky enough to marry into native families to stay in the area. Some are personal friends of mine. The are pretty sure somebody grabbed their land.

How about long term mining claims that where shut down because somebody from Washington D.C. who had never been to Alaska, who knew nothing about Alaska, and cared not one wit for Alaskans decided to apply new turbidity standards to the outflows of small stake holders whose mines contributed infinitesimal percentages of turbidity to streams compared to normal summer rains?

Never mind. Just ask any Alaskan who was there when the vote for statehood was cast if they would change their vote today.

There is some concern here about National Forest folks closing access to wild country. McPhee's book describes how that happens when the blood lust is up amongst the career managers of Federal assets. They have infinite power to do whatever they want. The "Notice of Proposed Rule Making" statute is the only check. It's a joke.

Emory Bored wrote:Damn, I just can't stay out of trouble.

Let me hear what you think about the Park service swooping in with helicopters to burn out long term settlers in the Yukon Charlie Wilderness while they went to town? When Alaska was a territory they were fine, but their homesteads got "upgraded" to National Park status. They were not re-imbursed. Many were lucky enough to marry into native families to stay in the area. Some are personal friends of mine. The are pretty sure somebody grabbed their land.

How about long term mining claims that where shut down because somebody from Washington D.C. who had never been to Alaska, who knew nothing about Alaska, and cared not one wit for Alaskans decided to apply new turbidity standards to the outflows of small stake holders whose mines contributed infinitesimal percentages of turbidity to streams compared to normal summer rains?

Never mind. Just ask any Alaskan who was there when the vote for statehood was cast if they would change their vote today.

There is some concern here about National Forest folks closing access to wild country. McPhee's book describes how that happens when the blood lust is up amongst the career managers of Federal assets. They have infinite power to do whatever they want. The "Notice of Proposed Rule Making" statute is the only check. It's a joke.

We're all facing the same problem all over the USA with the Fed's and States deciding what's best for us. Usually $ can prevail but it may take alot of them

Glidergeek wrote:

Emory Bored wrote:Damn, I just can't stay out of trouble.

Let me hear what you think about the Park service swooping in with helicopters to burn out long term settlers in the Yukon Charlie Wilderness while they went to town? When Alaska was a territory they were fine, but their homesteads got "upgraded" to National Park status. They were not re-imbursed. Many were lucky enough to marry into native families to stay in the area. Some are personal friends of mine. The are pretty sure somebody grabbed their land.

How about long term mining claims that where shut down because somebody from Washington D.C. who had never been to Alaska, who knew nothing about Alaska, and cared not one wit for Alaskans decided to apply new turbidity standards to the outflows of small stake holders whose mines contributed infinitesimal percentages of turbidity to streams compared to normal summer rains?

Never mind. Just ask any Alaskan who was there when the vote for statehood was cast if they would change their vote today.

There is some concern here about National Forest folks closing access to wild country. McPhee's book describes how that happens when the blood lust is up amongst the career managers of Federal assets. They have infinite power to do whatever they want. The "Notice of Proposed Rule Making" statute is the only check. It's a joke.

We're all facing the same problem all over the USA with the Fed's and States deciding what's best for us. Usually $ can prevail but it may take a lot of them

But most of the time it's a slam dunk from our paid "employees"

I think Washington DC should be moved to Western Oklahoma or thereabouts. The whole bunch of them. Get them away from their buddies with their Chesapeake Bay yachts and Virginia horse ranches. Live and work out of a trailer out in the sticks for a while. One trip home a month. Give them a dose of reality.

I think this whole thread could get moved to Hot Air in a hurry if not careful I think our Public Servants have switched roles and we are the servants now. We're working for them now instead of them working for us.

Agreed. MTV, let's move this side line to Hot Air. Then we can talk about "That Tired Old States Rights" argument and whatever you want. You start.

Figured that'n would get em stirred up....

MTV

Emory Bored wrote:Damn, I just can't stay out of trouble.

Let me hear what you think about the Park service swooping in with helicopters to burn out long term settlers in the Yukon Charlie Wilderness while they went to town? When Alaska was a territory they were fine, but their homesteads got "upgraded" to National Park status. They were not re-imbursed. Many were lucky enough to marry into native families to stay in the area. Some are personal friends of mine. The are pretty sure somebody grabbed their land.

So they owned "their" land then all of a sudden after Dec. 1, 1978 they no longer owned it?

Huh.

Gents,

The real problem is population growth. The population of our nation has more than doubled during my 64 years. From a bit over 150,000,000 to over 310 million and counting. Just not enough room for us to participate as we once did. Too many people pooping in the streams, belching smoke out of their chimneys. Few places for folks to run and hide...live the way they want too. You think ole Brigham Young could take his brood to Utah today and develope an alien community such as he did in the 19th century? Could Daniel Boone find a place to live where he could't see the smoke from a neighbors cabin? Recon the Native Americans saw any changes to their lifestyle....their land?

I don't like the changes either. I mourn the simple, uncomplicated world of my youth. At least it was uncomplicated in rural Indiana during the 50's and into the 60's. But we cannot turn back the clock. I have vowed however to spend as many of my remaining days as practical.....enjoying the few remaining areas of isolation and freedom.

Like a block of ice in the noontime sun....it's going fast. I'd not want to live in the world of my grandchildren. Of course my grandfather would despise the world as we now know it.

Bob(born a bit late...but caught the tail end of the best times)

Well put Bob!

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:

Emory Bored wrote:Damn, I just can't stay out of trouble.

Let me hear what you think about the Park service swooping in with helicopters to burn out long term settlers in the Yukon Charlie Wilderness while they went to town? When Alaska was a territory they were fine, but their homesteads got "upgraded" to National Park status. They were not re-imbursed. Many were lucky enough to marry into native families to stay in the area. Some are personal friends of mine. The are pretty sure somebody grabbed their land.

So they owned "their" land then all of a sudden after Dec. 1, 1978 they no longer owned it?

Huh.

Some call it eminent domain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain. I call it theft.

why would anyone want to go to Mile Hi anyway... there's no fish there... Now Cabin, Vines, and Dewey Moore are all a different story... Love the fishing at those strips...

FWIW, not so supercub should be removed by mon the 13th...seems all the chops have been firefighting around salmon and such.....

jomac wrote:FWIW, not so supercub should be removed by mon the 13th...seems all the chops have been firefighting around salmon and such.....

you crack me up, Joe. Maybe it's the Polish side of me, but took a little while to figure out what you mean But, I got it now

z3skybolt wrote:Gents,

The real problem is population growth. The population of our nation has more than doubled during my 64 years. From a bit over 150,000,000 to over 310 million and counting. Just not enough room for us to participate as we once did. Too many people pooping in the streams, belching smoke out of their chimneys. Few places for folks to run and hide...live the way they want too. You think ole Brigham Young could take his brood to Utah today and develope an alien community such as he did in the 19th century? Could Daniel Boone find a place to live where he could't see the smoke from a neighbors cabin? Recon the Native Americans saw any changes to their lifestyle....their land?

I don't like the changes either. I mourn the simple, uncomplicated world of my youth. At least it was uncomplicated in rural Indiana during the 50's and into the 60's. But we cannot turn back the clock. I have vowed however to spend as many of my remaining days as practical.....enjoying the few remaining areas of isolation and freedom.

Like a block of ice in the noontime sun....it's going fast. I'd not want to live in the world of my grandchildren. Of course my grandfather would despise the world as we now know it.

Bob(born a bit late...but caught the tail end of the best times)

Ha... apparently you haven't been to Austin, Nevada...

Coyote Ugly wrote:

z3skybolt wrote:Gents,

The real problem is population growth. The population of our nation has more than doubled during my 64 years. From a bit over 150,000,000 to over 310 million and counting. Just not enough room for us to participate as we once did. Too many people pooping in the streams, belching smoke out of their chimneys. Few places for folks to run and hide...live the way they want too. You think ole Brigham Young could take his brood to Utah today and develope an alien community such as he did in the 19th century? Could Daniel Boone find a place to live where he could't see the smoke from a neighbors cabin? Recon the Native Americans saw any changes to their lifestyle....their land?

I don't like the changes either. I mourn the simple, uncomplicated world of my youth. At least it was uncomplicated in rural Indiana during the 50's and into the 60's. But we cannot turn back the clock. I have vowed however to spend as many of my remaining days as practical.....enjoying the few remaining areas of isolation and freedom.

Like a block of ice in the noontime sun....it's going fast. I'd not want to live in the world of my grandchildren. Of course my grandfather would despise the world as we now know it.

Bob(born a bit late...but caught the tail end of the best times)

Ha... apparently you haven't been to Austin, Nevada...

Population double up there Pops

The real problem is population growth

I agree---I experienced a couple of things that made me realize I didn't want any kids. In 1972 my dad and I were flying the Piper Clipper back to the Tidewater part of Virginia from Iowa and got hung up in Washington PA. There weren't any clouds but the pollution was so bad that all we could see was I-70 looking straight down so had to hire a IFR Arrow to deliver us and dad retrieved the PA16 weeks later. Then in 1973 I experienced the oil shortage with rationing and lines. Those two things had a big effect on my life.