Nosedragger wrote:

contactflying wrote:Sprayers have the best situation because we stay low where we can see everyone in the pattern, stay close so we can see everyone on the ground, and give way to everyone so we will always land behind them. Stealth is soo comforting. For everyone else, would not staying calm be helpful. No radio is required so there is no way to know what is in his mind. If you just stay out of his way and don't try to judge him, perhaps he will give you the same courtesy the next time. Or do it like sprayers. Give way to everyone. When I flew pipeline patrol I operated exactly as if I were in a spray plane without a radio. In some fifty thousand landings, one guy saw me and complained about the way I operated.

That's impressive, and I believe it. The ag guys really are the best there is to be around. I saw one of ours even back off the runway behind the hold short line when he accidently wandered out in front of landing traffic, never saw anyone do that before. The jet jockey's coming into non-towered airports are the ones that piss me off. "Gulfstream 1234, 30 mile final, make sure they have his holiness' escalade running and cooled to 67 degrees. Also don't let them open the big hangar door, bring it out through the garage door. We'll need a fresh airpot, 1000 pounds of fuel, pump the crapper, wash the windows, bring us a roasted duck sandwich on a ciabatta bun extra grey poupon and a tonic water with lemon...... 20 mile final- straight in, all you little bug smashers setting off our TCAS better be the hell out of the way when we get there."

mtv wrote:

Nosedragger wrote:

contactflying wrote:Sprayers have the best situation because we stay low where we can see everyone in the pattern, stay close so we can see everyone on the ground, and give way to everyone so we will always land behind them. Stealth is soo comforting. For everyone else, would not staying calm be helpful. No radio is required so there is no way to know what is in his mind. If you just stay out of his way and don't try to judge him, perhaps he will give you the same courtesy the next time. Or do it like sprayers. Give way to everyone. When I flew pipeline patrol I operated exactly as if I were in a spray plane without a radio. In some fifty thousand landings, one guy saw me and complained about the way I operated.

That's impressive, and I believe it. The ag guys really are the best there is to be around. I saw one of ours even back off the runway behind the hold short line when he accidently wandered out in front of landing traffic, never saw anyone do that before. The jet jockey's coming into non-towered airports are the ones that piss me off. "Gulfstream 1234, 30 mile final, make sure they have his holiness' escalade running and cooled to 67 degrees. Also don't let them open the big hangar door, bring it out through the garage door. We'll need a fresh airpot, 1000 pounds of fuel, pump the crapper, wash the windows, bring us a roasted duck sandwich on a ciabatta bun extra grey poupon and a tonic water with lemon...... 20 mile final- straight in, all you little bug smashers setting off our TCAS better be the hell out of the way when we get there."

E
Ah, restarting old misuse of CTAF again? Yep, used to hear those guys going in to ABR, almost 300 miles away, but on our same freq for CTAF.

MTV

mtv wrote:

robw56 wrote:

G44 wrote:I will 2nd what MTV said and also add enter the pattern on the 45! Even at my grass strip (Hampton) people enter the pattern in every which way they see fit, radio and non radio. Scares the heck out of me seeing some of the close calls. Just use the 45 and make it easier to see the other airplane. The most dangerous entry's are the crosswind and midfield cross over into the downwind, see it all the time…

G44

I gotta admit I never use the 45, only if it's convenient, which it usually isn't. The way I see it is that it's usually a waste of time and money to fly out of my way to get on a 45 for downwind. Especially since most of the time I'm the only one around. I just enter the pattern whichever way makes the most sense and state my intentions on the radio. With that being said, I only do this if it doesn't interfere with anyone already in the pattern. If I want to make a straight but it conflicts with someone already in the pattern, I'll give way and do a 360 or whatever is needed and let them land first. If the pattern is full with 5 planes? I'll probably go enter on a 45. But why do it if you're the only one around? Or if you can do it safely even if there's 1 or 2 other planes in the pattern. As long as you're being courteous to others already in the pattern and stating your intentions on the radio I don't see anything wrong with non standard patterns.

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here, so don't take this a criticism.

First, you need to understand the regulations regarding operations at uncontrolled fields. Essentially, the rule is that you must make all turns to the left unless otherwise specified at that airport (in which case all turns must be to the right).

So, if you're suggesting that it's okay to make turns whichever way is convenient to you, that is both wrong and illegal. And one day, the wrong person will witness this and you'll be talking to the fed.....if you're lucky. If you're not lucky, you'll die in a mid air and maybe take someone else with you who was doing it right.

Now, note that the reg doesn't say you HAVE to turn while in the pattern....just that all turns must be to the left, unless. So, a straight in is legal, as is a direct base entry, as long as the turn was the right direction.

Now, the AIM, on the other hand, suggests in rather strong terms that you fly a "standard traffic pattern" which includes a 45 degree entry, but the AIM is advisory, not regulatory in nature.

So, you can skip traffic patterns altogether if you like, and fly straight ins everywhere you land. Legally.

BUT, if you turn while in the pattern it must be in the correct direction.....even if you THINK you're the only plane around. The regs apply whether there's traffic or not, and remember, the Feds drive unmarked cars

The real kicker, though, is that if you cause another plane to deviate from their standard pattern because you weren't flying a standard pattern, YOU are the one who's going to dance for the FAA, and maybe have to face the survivors and try to explain why you weren't flying safely and professionally.

If you have to pee, fly a straight in, or carry a bottle, old timer.

And, I'll tell you that there are a lot of times when I thought I was the only one around, and found out different.

It takes a couple minutes and a few ounces of gas to fly a standard pattern. It's not that hard to fly like a professional, regardless of what it says on your certificate.

MTV

Crenshaw wrote:But, there's no reason you can't get just as good of a picture flying a standard 45 entry.

Crenshaw wrote:But, there's no reason you can't get just as good of a picture flying a standard 45 entry. Is it more widely accepted to cross midfield at +500' and do the 225* turn onto the 45? And obviously that right hand turn doesn't count as a right hand turn in the pattern?

G44 wrote:Well GB, the reason guys are pissed is because people can die.

G44