shorton wrote:So tell me please just where do we come into the "modern vehicles with such good gas mileage? If you mean the tiny little cars that can get 40 mpg they have been around for half a century too.

shorton wrote:......So tell me please just where do we come into the "modern vehicles with such good gas mileage? If you mean the tiny little cars that can get 40 mpg they have been around for half a century too.

shorton wrote:..it just seems that instead of actually making some real improvements the manufacturers just spout claims of "new and improved" and we all have such short memories that they get away with it.

EZFlap wrote:It's the weight and crashworthiness and emissions stuff that answers this question. If you make an apples to apples comparison, I bet you will find the newer cars are more efficient. Remove all the emissions stuff from a brand new car. Re-tune it to run properly without the emissions. Then remove the weight, complexity and systems of the crash stuff, airbags, ABS, rollover structure, crumple zones, etc. Then compare it to the (now equivalent) 1950's or 60's cars and the mileage will be a lot better.

The highest gas mileage car I am aware of having been sold in memory was the mid 1980's Geo Metro which was actually a Suzuki Swift. It had a 3 cylinder engine and one version would exceed 50 MPG at highway speed. The new version of this car gets maybe 40 miles a gallon, despite 25 years of "improvement". The difference is weight and complexity and systems and smog equipment.

courierguy wrote:
The Yaris I drive is as near as I can get to a "new" Metro. Cheap and simple transportation, so light I can push it around the shop with one finger, (yeah, I know, don't get hit by anything), it leaves me more money to spend on flying! The electronic varible valve timing alone is pretty awesome technology, I wish I had that in the plane.

How about Greg Poe's ethanol burning aerobatic plane?

It's the weight and crashworthiness and emissions stuff that answers this question. If you make an apples to apples comparison, I bet you will find the newer cars are more efficient. Remove all the emissions stuff from a brand new car. Re-tune it to run properly without the emissions. Then remove the weight, complexity and systems of the crash stuff, airbags, ABS, rollover structure, crumple zones, etc. Then compare it to the (now equivalent) 1950's or 60's cars and the mileage will be a lot better.

Idaho Dairy Farmers Struggle to Deal with Low Commodity Prices.
Times-News (Twin Falls, ID)
| October 22, 2000 | COPYRIGHT 2001 The Times-News. This material is published under license from the publisher through the Gale Group, Farmington Hills, Michigan. All inquiries regarding rights should be directed to the Gale Group. (Hide copyright information)Copyright

Oct. 22--TWIN FALLS, Idaho--Eighteen months ago, dairymen enjoying high milk prices were scratching their heads wondering how the devastation hitting other commodities was somehow missing their industry.

They're not wondering anymore. It's all caught up, and producers are now wondering how long they can last at $9-$10 milk.

"We're concerned it could last another year or two as we work our way through this," said Bill Brooks, dairy economist and broker with Downes-O'Neill Dairy Team in Dearborn, Mo.

"If you play the averages, we saw three to four years of average to above average prices before this hit," he said. It might just take three to four years of average to below average prices to get the numbers back in line.

As for the lag in suffering in the dairy industry, Brooks said that's typical. But it definitely coincides with what has happened in the grain industry, he said. The old adage that cheap feed makes cheap beef, cheap pork and cheap milk definitely applies. Cheap feed leads to increased production.

That and good prices. …

180Marty wrote:Mr Scout, here is an article from 2000 before ethanol was really in the picture.

Idaho Dairy Farmers Struggle to Deal with Low Commodity Prices.
Times-News (Twin Falls, ID)
| October 22, 2000 | COPYRIGHT 2001 The Times-News. This material is published under license from the publisher through the Gale Group, Farmington Hills, Michigan. All inquiries regarding rights should be directed to the Gale Group. (Hide copyright information)Copyright

Oct. 22--TWIN FALLS, Idaho--Eighteen months ago, dairymen enjoying high milk prices were scratching their heads wondering how the devastation hitting other commodities was somehow missing their industry.

They're not wondering anymore. It's all caught up, and producers are now wondering how long they can last at $9-$10 milk.

"We're concerned it could last another year or two as we work our way through this," said Bill Brooks, dairy economist and broker with Downes-O'Neill Dairy Team in Dearborn, Mo.

"If you play the averages, we saw three to four years of average to above average prices before this hit," he said. It might just take three to four years of average to below average prices to get the numbers back in line.

As for the lag in suffering in the dairy industry, Brooks said that's typical. But it definitely coincides with what has happened in the grain industry, he said. The old adage that cheap feed makes cheap beef, cheap pork and cheap milk definitely applies. Cheap feed leads to increased production.

That and good prices. …

mr scout wrote:Well thanks for pointing out the point. Now I have lost all chances of getting Marty back on the Ethanol for the greater good soapbox Until the Dairy guys figure out what the almond growers figured out 30+ years ago I am afraid they will continue to struggle no matter the price of corn.

Stol wrote:

Ok, I am clueless... What did the almond growers do 30 years ago ?????

Stol wrote:

mr scout wrote:Well thanks for pointing out the point. Now I have lost all chances of getting Marty back on the Ethanol for the greater good soapbox Until the Dairy guys figure out what the almond growers figured out 30+ years ago I am afraid they will continue to struggle no matter the price of corn.

Ok, I am clueless... What did the almond growers do 30 years ago ?????