I don't like ethanol.

Funny how 2% of the population feed the rest of us and they can't get a "syndicate" together enough to make a consistent living. Especially when the unions seem to be able to drive the boat as they do.

I suppose everybody ran Lancef53's numbers but if you didn't here they are. If 100LL is $4 a gallon, then E0 is $50 an hour and E60 is $37.80. That is a pretty good savings and one thing about his test, he is using apples to apples gasoline(100LL). The other neat thing is, his octane rating is even higher on the E60.

180Marty wrote:I suppose everybody ran Lancef53's numbers but if you didn't here they are. If 100LL is $4 a gallon, then E0 is $50 an hour and E60 is $37.80. That is a pretty good savings and one thing about his test, he is using apples to apples gasoline(100LL). The other neat thing is, his octane rating is even higher on the E60.

Then you guys should get us an STC for it

Tim

qmdv--build an experimental like I did, and run whatever you are comfortable with in it.

No STC needed

If I had a list of things that I want to accomplish in my lifetime, working with the FAA on getting an ethanol STC (or any STC)would be real close to one end of the list. Try and figure out which end

It takes 1.5 gal of diesel fuel to make 1.0 gal of Ethanol...go figure!

hicountry wrote:It takes 1.5 gal of diesel fuel to make 1.0 gal of Ethanol...go figure!

We are lucky that is all we are subsidising. Isn't that a better deal than what I will be getting on my 45 year investment in Social Security.

Tim

Hicountry, where do you get those figures? The way left wing sierra club newsletter?

Give me a break, or show us some info to support it?

hicountry wrote:It takes 1.5 gal of diesel fuel to make 1.0 gal of Ethanol...go figure!

That's an oversimplification.

The most detailed analysis of which I'm aware is a joint study between Cornell and UC Berkeley, headed by David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell, and Tad W. Patzek, professor of civil and environmental engineering at UC Berkeley.

They looked at the amount of fossil fuels used in everything from planting, fertilizing, irrigating, harvesting, grinding, transporting, fermenting, etc. They showed that producing ethanol is a net loss, taking more gallons of fossil fuels than the gallons of ethanol produced, but the actual number depends on what was being used to make the ethanol.

Corn takes 1.29 gal of fossil fuels, switch grass takes 1.45 gal, and wood biomass takes 1.57 gal.

http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~prabhu/gmonpolitics/Pimentel.pdf

delete

Bottom line,


Al Gore was a mistake.

bumper wrote:Bottom line,


Al Gore was a mistake.

Amen!

Small Tail Caddy wrote:

bumper wrote:Bottom line,


Al Gore was a mistake.

Amen!

Thank goodness for the Supreme Court.

Tim

kevbert wrote:

hicountry wrote:It takes 1.5 gal of diesel fuel to make 1.0 gal of Ethanol...go figure!

That's an oversimplification.

The most detailed analysis of which I'm aware is a joint study between Cornell and UC Berkeley, headed by David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell, and Tad W. Patzek, professor of civil and environmental engineering at UC Berkeley.

They looked at the amount of fossil fuels used in everything from planting, fertilizing, irrigating, harvesting, grinding, transporting, fermenting, etc. They showed that producing ethanol is a net loss, taking more gallons of fossil fuels than the gallons of ethanol produced, but the actual number depends on what was being used to make the ethanol.

Corn takes 1.29 gal of fossil fuels, switch grass takes 1.45 gal, and wood biomass takes 1.57 gal.

http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~prabhu/gmonpolitics/Pimentel.pdf

Does this take into account the electricity used in the eth plant whose power comes from hydro electricity (bad for fish) or burning coal. Thank goodness they are not using wind generators for the power, that would raise the costs through the roof.

tim

bumper wrote:Bottom line,


Al Gore was a mistake.

Come on, with out Al Gore, we wouldn't have the internet!

lancef53 wrote:Hicountry, where do you get those figures? The way left wing sierra club newsletter?

Give me a break, or show us some info to support it?

The costs related to the planting, cultivation, harvesting and processeing the corn and transporting the product to be blended..these are not MY figures..I looked them up..University of Nebraska..why do you think Ethanol is subsidized?

I don't know why it is subsidized. Every study that has ever been done comes up with different numbers on the cost of production, and time will tell if any plants will remain open when any credits go away.

As far as I am concerned, the government should stop subsidizing most everything. This way, everything can stand on its own or fail. We all end up paying for it in taxes anyways.

We can start with ethanol, wind power, food stamps, and unemployment.

Anybody else have any pet earmarks they want to stop throwing money at?

I agree, Al Gore IS a mistake.

lancef53 wrote:I don't know why it is subsidized. Every study that has ever been done comes up with different numbers on the cost of production, and time will tell if any plants will remain open when any credits go away.

As far as I am concerned, the government should stop subsidizing most everything. This way, everything can stand on its own or fail. We all end up paying for it in taxes anyways.

We can start with ethanol, wind power, food stamps, and unemployment.

Anybody else have any pet earmarks they want to stop throwing money at?

I agree, Al Gore IS a mistake.

Please don't do away with food stamps..I'm going to retire soon and I may need food stamps to buy 100LL with!. Just think without Al Gore we could not communicate this way, Zane wouldn't have this site to build for us, and we would all be writing letters to send so the Post Office wouldn't be broke. See how things work out?

I don't know if we should blame Zane for this or thank him

I have an idea.... Maybe I could get a grant from the government to study BCP to determine if it is causing problems or solving them??

Any of you guys need a job? I will probably need some agents in the field

While we are fixing things, I want to opt out of Social Security. The current projected date for it to go broke is right when I will turn 65

Since this has gone political, I'll mention that I just read the book "Decision Points" by G.W.B. Interesting section there on Social Security reform.

gb

lancef53 wrote:qmdv--build an experimental like I did, and run whatever you are comfortable with in it. No STC needed .........(

Cessna, Petersen, & EAA have all looked at ethanol/gas & said don't use it. I'm sure if it was safe to use it, both Petersen & EAA would be making some money by selling E10 (or whatever) upgrades to their cargas STC's . They're not, so I'll take their advise & not run it.