--Split from "Flying Wild Alaska" -Z
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Heres a question from an Alaskan dummy: Why do they always say on the show that they need 1 mile vis. with a 500ft. ceiling to be legal and yet they say all of their flying is VFR?

I like the show, like the Tweto's, like their pilots, like the planes, like the scenery, the narrator blows! Its the only show I record.

SixTwoLeemer wrote:Heres a question from an Alaskan dummy: Why do they always say on the show that they need 1 mile vis. with a 500ft. ceiling to be legal and yet they say all of their flying is VFR?

I like the show, like the Tweto's, like their pilots, like the planes, like the scenery, the narrator blows! Its the only show I record.

Class G airspace visibility requirements. When less than 1,200 ft AGL daytime.

Airplanes 1 mile clear of clouds.

Minimum safe alt according to FAA. 500 ft slant range from persons property livestock.


So 500 and 1 is the absolute minimum to be legal.

Going off memory here my FAR is not with me or I'd give ya' numbers but it's all in Part 91.

Under Part 135.205. The real-life translation is 1000 ft/1 mile, 500 ft/2 mile to DEPART on a Special VFR or flying in uncontrolled airspace.

Sec. 135.205 — VFR: Visibility requirements.
(a) No person may operate an airplane under VFR in uncontrolled airspace when the ceiling is less than 1,000 feet unless flight visibility is at least 2 miles.

(b) No person may operate a helicopter under VFR in Class G airspace at an altitude of 1,200 feet or less above the surface or within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport unless the visibility is at least—

(1) During the day—1/2mile; or

(2) At night—1 mile.

Coming home is a whole other story, at least it was in the old days, and all that is required is "one mile" on the visibility. Ceiling didn't matter. 100 and one got you home, and if you were iced up and running out of options fast, FSS always found "one mile" just long enough to get you back in. Then things snapped shut once you had landed.

And if anybody goes up there to fly for a living and thinks VFR means VFR, boy do they have a surprise coming!!!!!

Gump

Class G:
1,200 feet or less above the surface (regardless of MSL altitude)
Day, except as provided in §91.155(b) 1 statute mile Clear of clouds.
Night, except as provided in §91.155(b)
3 statute miles 500 feet below clouds.
1,000 feet above.
2,000 feet horizontal.

More than 1,200 feet above the surface but less than 10,000 feet MSL
Day
1 statute mile 500 feet below clouds.
1,000 feet above.
2,000 feet horizontal.

Thanks for making me look that up! Must be a math problem like 670x says.

You guys are thinking Part 91. Part 135 has their own set of rules.

Gump

Right on Gump. Live in the wrong world for this one.

GumpAir wrote:Sec. 135.205 — VFR: Visibility requirements.
(a) No person may operate an airplane under VFR in uncontrolled airspace when the ceiling is less than 1,000 feet unless flight visibility is at least 2 miles.
Gump

So Gump, looking at 135.205, why do they say they need 500' and a mile?

Kommi... 'er SkyTruck

They misspoke. It's 500 and 2, or 1000 and 1 for VFR ops. In fact, most places up far north the operators have a "gentlemen's agreement" with the Feds, and will operate with 1000 and "2" as minimums for DEPARTURE.

The thing is, if you depart 1000 and 1, and the vis drops below 1 mile, you have no way of legally returning if you have a problem unless you cry out with the Big E. It's just too tight, and doesn't leave you with any options. Bethel might get away with it, because they have so many strips close by. But Kotz, Nome, etc, once you leave there. You got nowhere close to go if things go sour on you.

Gump

TV Producers get shit wrong.... Go figure

Oh.... I didn't forget.

Just have to chuckle though, thinking back on all the "secret" radio code and procedures used to get through our flying days. Big Brother was always listening, and we were paranoid about snitching each other off. And, depending on what your peers thought of your flying skills, weather reports changed drastically from an old fart asking/telling to a newbie wanting to know.

A new guy being told, "I just came out of there and you don't want to try it," was heard a lot. As also was, "It's tight, but you'll make it" being reported to a dinosaur. Our bootleg ATC system up there was amazingly smooth and efficient.

Gump

I can recall sitting in the old Lake Hood tower on the old Lk Hd strip waiting for wx to improve on Xmas eve trying to get back home to King Salmon. After 2 hrs controller told me to go get warmed up click the mike twice, wait 1 min and call for special VFR. Low and behold it improved and I was cleared out of the zone It dropped shortly after I left Made it home for xmas what ever happened to 1 mile and clear of clouds ?

I can recall getting a special VFR out of Lake Hood with a flight of 6 (All Comm operators) bet u can't do that now

GumpAir wrote: Our bootleg ATC system up there was amazingly smooth and efficient.

Gump

Good thing we didn't have GPS in those days It would have been scary out there. would have made my bootleg ADF/Vor approach into Bettles a lot easier

I am not sure you are supposed to be able to do this, but a few years ago, I ask for and got 7 different Special VFR's from 6 different control towers in a 2 1/2 hour period while pipelineing.

Got a special into Kodiak once when visibility was down to 2 miles or so coming around the north end of the island, and past town. Perfectly good airport in town, and my house was nearby, but the tower gave me a special, calling the visibility there 1 mile in fog and rain.

A Grumman driver called for taxi to takeoff a little later, and the controller hesitated. SHould have been a clue for me to go back to town and land....

Visibility got worse and worse as I followed the shoreline to the point where I decided I didn't want to turn out over the water. I followed the shoreline, which leads right to the approach end of 18, and I was cleared to land 18. Gear down and half flaps, looking for that "One mile Visibility".

Visibility now getting much worse.

The mouth of the Buskin River appears out of the goo, followed shortly by the REILs, as I cross the approach end of the runway, and out of the corner of my eye, I see a yellow Grumman, waiting. Trying to think how to delicately tell him "don't go", when he calls the tower ready. The reply: "Unable, visibility 1/8 mile in fog and heavy rain-the airport is IFR."

I called the controller when they got off shift, bought em a beer, thanked them, and asked them NOT to do me any of those kinds of favors in future. Tell me to go to the Municipal airport or the boat channel next time. Well meaning controller, but.....


MTV

I was coming into PAKN last summer and the conditions were around 700 and 5 for fifteen or so miles as I approached the airport. But the edge of King Salmon airspace was the edge of a black wall of ugly. The field was reporting 600 and 1, and I was cleared in via SVFR. Cured me of wanting to fly in visibility below 3. Felt like I was playing pin the tail on the donkey. I was halfway to the airport from the edge of the airspace, and another guy asked about SVFR, and the tower said, "we're going to lose the airspace in five minutes..." not sure what he meant, but sounded like either the ceiling or visibility was worse than reported. Felt bad, that's for sure. As it turned out, they didn't lose the airspace, but it certainly wasn't a banner weather day. I had a clear view of 5NK from the edge of King Salmon airspace, so next time that happens, if it does, I'm just heading over there...

Woops...I completely forgot they are actually getting paid to fly passengers! Sorry too much pipeline flying in my past; so yeah what Gumpair say's.

.

by losing the airspace he probably meant that an aircraft on an IFR flight plan was coming in, when that happens they can't allow SVFRs until he is down. Specials work really well when everyone is playing, let the controlling agency know that you can maintain visual separation with whoever else is out there requesting to take off or come in, and you can get a really nice flow going. If not someone ends up circling at 500 feet among the islands and mountains...which sucks.

I loved the mention of code words which are still alive and well. Our POI has flew 135 up here for years, one day he came in and got on the company freq and announced, "the coffee is hot", apparently our code is not very imaginative. There are many others but OpSec reigns.

DonC wrote:I can recall getting a special VFR out of Lake Hood with a flight of 6 (All Comm operators) bet u can't do that now

I did see that happen this summer, but it was only a 4 ship departure. It was kind of funny though, they were scattered all over the lake when cleared to go.

Bethel has to be the Crown Jewel of Special VFR "Flight" clearances....

First time I went out there with a Cub, I got mixed in with a dozen or so 207's headed out of the surface area as a flight......They were all nice enough to not run me over as I struggled along at 90 mph...

Coming back in was the same deal: Covey up outside the surface area, hold with everyone else till the tower clears out the last herd, and in ya go. I brought up the rear of those "flights".

I heard that at one point the FAA got a little testy with the ATC folks at Bethel about this, and tried to stop all "flights" under SVFR in and out of the Bethel Class D. Controllers basically told them to stuff it and change the regulations and procedures if they really wanted to go there, but don't tell the controllers how to do their job.

Good on them.

MTV