180Marty wrote:N1593Y, A few months ago you were saying that sub-octane gasoline is all that would be refined pretty soon. What's the story on that now?

It is happening and will continue. I was referring primarily to the Northwest, but it will spread across the country as the federal RFS mandate increases each year and more and more gasoline must be blended. That is what the "blending wall" is all about. By 2013 at the latest the mandate requires more ethanol than can be blended in all of the gasoline used in the US if it is all E10.

I see by the January PADD 5 reports that every terminal in California, except the one in Imperial, is now only handling ethanol blended gasoline which means all of the refineries in California are making CarBOB, which is California's unique suboctane blending component.

Oregon state Department of Agriculture was notified by the refineries in Washington that the only product being shipped down the Olympic pipeline is cBOB now. According to the PADD 5 report, there is still some clear product at the refineries in Washington but it is now being distributed by truck, rail or barge only. According to the report the BP refinery no longer makes clear product. It is obvious that demand will drop for clear product since the only major users are marinas and two airports in Washington and one in Oregon. As that happens the refineries will quit making clear product as BOB is cheaper to make and they get more of it in a run.

cardlock closest to ontario airport is alcohol free

What a mess
The washington political and farm Loby determins what we use.
Do you know how much water is used to make this crap ?

Well, today I tested the premium at the 76 station where I have been getting alcohol free fuel. The water level went up above my water line. By the volume it is 5% alcohol now.

tcj wrote:

Stickman wrote:Do you know if Poole Oil is just in Oregon? Any chance of clean gas in Wa?
Jim

Union 76 premium in Ellensburg was still moonshine free last time I tested. That was around the end of last Nov. The tanker driver at the station told me Conoco here is too.

Edit 2/9/10: today I tested this station's premium and it appears to be 5% alcohol. Bummer!

My own test kit is a 50 ml tube (it's actually taller than that) I put 5 ml of water in it than 45 ml of gas, cork the top shake it and let it settle. If it comes up to 6, 7, or 8 or more I subtract the 5 ml original from the result and double and that gives me the %, right?

Glidergeek wrote:My own test kit is a 50 ml tube (it's actually taller than that) I put 5 ml of water in it than 45 ml of gas, cork the top shake it and let it settle. If it comes up to 6, 7, or 8 or more I subtract the 5 ml original from the result and double and that gives me the %, right?

Pretty close for what we need to know. I think it would be right on if you put in 50 ml of gas.

My way of thinking is I use a tall skinny jar with a line about 1/2 inch above the bottom, fill with water to the line, put some gas in, if the water is above the line I estimate the increase and estimate what % that is of the total above the line. But I don't really care what the percentage is. If there is any alcohol I look for a new source.

My fuel sampler in the kitfox has everything marked on it for doing the test. Check yours out, it might be there.

tcj wrote:.........Edit 2/9/10: today I tested this station's premium and it appears to be 5% alcohol. Bummer!

Check the local Cenex station if you have one nearby.

Thanks for the Cenex tip Hot Rod. I tested the premium there this AM and it is alcohol free. I then stopped by the Conoco and the premium there too is free from alcohol. I'm happy as a pig in manure.

Just curious as I am not that familar with using mogas in aircraft..... ......

If you buy mogas at a gas station, can you get the road tax refunded as you aren't operating the aircraft on the highway?

-Matt

ya just send in the form an receipt
oregon tax fuels group

Think there should be a Google Map with blue pins marking all the places that are known to have Mogas at an airport, landing strip or fuel station close to an airport? I'll start on if you send me the information.

fern_hopper wrote:...If you buy mogas at a gas station, can you get the road tax refunded as you aren't operating the aircraft on the highway? ..........

In Washington contact the Dept of Licensing about this. They'll send you a refund application form and assign you a permit number. You'll need to document your purchases (I photocopy my credit card receipts) to show quantity type price and date purchased. They refund the state highway tax, minus aviation tax and sales tax. The refunded amount fluctuates- I've been doing it for over 10 years & it's gone from a low of about $.01 per gallon just a year or two ago, to a high (now) of about $.20.

Eric

oregon tax refund form just send it in with receipts
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/CS/FTG/AFrefundforms.shtml

I'd be more than happy to let them keep their tax if they'd let me land on any road whenever I wanted.

I've been doing it in Idaho for years, my tax man handles it. Seems only fair since I almost never land on roads.

58Skylane wrote:Think there should be a Google Map with blue pins marking all the places that are known to have Mogas at an airport, landing strip or fuel station close to an airport? I'll start on if you send me the information.

Someone already does the airports with mogas: http://www.chouby.com/apps/autogas.html

Be advised the ones in CA and MT are anchorages on lakes, so there are only two airports in WA and one in OR with mogas on the airport and nothing else west of the Rockies. Adding airports with mogas within walking distance is going to be problematical because there is NO guarantee that local service stations won't be taken E10 next week, since E10 will continue to spread at an ever increasing rate. People will not be able to use such information for flight planning, unless a telephone number for the station is included and the people running the station know what they are talking about. Since Oregon requires that service station attendants pump your gas, most of them don't know squat about what is in their tanks, since their is a very high turnover rate at gas stations.

N1593Y wrote:

58Skylane wrote:Think there should be a Google Map with blue pins marking all the places that are known to have Mogas at an airport, landing strip or fuel station close to an airport? I'll start on if you send me the information.

Someone already does the airports with mogas: http://www.chouby.com/apps/autogas.html

Be advised the ones in CA and MT are anchorages on lakes, so there are only two airports in WA and one in OR with mogas on the airport and nothing else west of the Rockies. Adding airports with mogas within walking distance is going to be problematical because there is NO guarantee that local service stations won't be taken E10 next week, since E10 will continue to spread at an ever increasing rate. People will not be able to use such information for flight planning, unless a telephone number for the station is included and the people running the station know what they are talking about. Since Oregon requires that service station attendants pump your gas, most of them don't know squat about what is in their tanks, since their is a very high turnover rate at gas stations.

Sweet! I understand the other points.

Just saw on Oregon Field Guide that the Oregon State Marine Board website maintains a list of ethanol free gasoline suppliers. You can find it here: http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/news/docs/EthanolList.pdf

In a quick look over the list I only saw Lebanon Airport as a place you could fly in. But the list is quick long, and if you haul gas, there is a place near just about anyone in Oregon could get to.

tom