Yes, I'm going to ask it. I know its been asked before, but I'm in a unique position here. I understand most's position on attending college in the pursuit of aviation education, however, I've got an Army college fund, & a post 9/11 GI bill to spend. Rather than spend my hard earned money on my ratings, I'd rather use the benefits given to me by Uncle Sam. Unfortunately to do so, I have to attend an "institute of higher learning". My question is if any of you fine people know of a college with an outstanding aviation department through which I can earn my ratings. Been looking, but it seems I have a got a repertoir of knowledge from aviation professionals here to ask, and I value all of your opinions, so why not?

First thanks for your service and your time spent there.
As I understand it, not from firsthand experience, you won't graduate with a bunch of flight time. You get a degree and a commercial license with instrument and multi-engine ratings and maybe a CFI but not much more.
There are several University aviation programs that come to mind. Embry Riddle, http://www.erau.edu/ and the University of North Dakota are likely the two most famous ones. I won't comment (much) on these two but one is a for profit mill that does a pretty good job and the other a regular 4 year state University. I did a yahoo search for university aviation program and came up with a bunch of them.
also:
http://www.uaa.aero/

You could also get a degree in something else as a backup and find a local flight school to advance your aviation training. Over the 4 years of University while learning to fly then working as a CFI for the last year or two you will probably have more flight time this way.

delete

Apexshot is that like a money shot

Purdue University has a good program, and it will look great on a resume`
The only bad thing is its in Indiana, and its mostly an engineering school, so its mostly dudes......

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If you want to stay out west, you might look at Prescott where I am based. Smallish mountain town. Of course Embry Riddle is here as everyone knows... but VERY expensive.
What is often overlooked is Yavapai College. A two year school with a connection to Guidance Aviation.
You can do either fixed wing or rotary wing training with them and get started on a four year degree. Much cheaper than ERAU. Tuition at the college is cheap... so your money goes mainly for avgas.
Good luck in your search.

porterjet wrote:As I understand it, not from firsthand experience, you won't graduate with a bunch of flight time. You get a degree and a commercial license with instrument and multi-engine ratings and maybe a CFI but not much more.

This isn't such a big deal to me, seing as its of no cost to me. I honestly don't even care about the degree. I just want the ratings!

I'm also wanting to get my A&P knocked out, so I've been looking for schools that facilitate both. It will be hard to complete A&P, and get all my ratings in a 3 year time span, but it has to be done! As for having something to fall back on, I have a ton of satellite communications, radio, and IT experience from my current job.

Mongo wrote:Apexshot is that like a money shot

Purdue University has a good program, and it will look great on a resume`
The only bad thing is its in Indiana, and its mostly an engineering school, so its mostly dudes......

Not quite a money shot! I have an affinity to all things that go boom, which is what inspired my handle.

And the whole mostly dudes thing doesn't bother me. I've been in an all male unit for a while, and I'm also happily married.

flightlogic wrote:What is often overlooked is Yavapai College. A two year school with a connection to Guidance Aviation.
You can do either fixed wing or rotary wing training with them and get started on a four year degree.

I like how this sounds! I'll look it up. I grew up on the east coast, as did my wife, so most of the family is over there, however, I really do like living nearer the west coast. I'd really like to do rotory wing as well. Hell, I just wanna do everything aviation related!

The Post 9-11 GI Bill is VERY generous at the moment. In MN, for example, it will cover up to $7000 per semester for housing, tuition, books, etc, AND up to $37 THOUSAND per semester for flight training lab fees. Those were last year's amounts, so not sure they're the same, but the point is, they're generous.

What do you want to do with your life, first off? Want to be an airline pilot....I'd consider EARU or UND. Expensive, and they offer degrees in flying, but they have LOTS of very expensive training resources, like turbine aircraft, RJ sims, etc, etc.

Also, if you are considering an airline career, DO NOT apply anywhere that offers Part 61 Flight training. Find a Part 141 school. The FAA is in the process of implementing the Congress' order to require an ATP certificate to fly for the airlines, and it APPEARS that they MAY approve a "provisional" ATP at somewhere around 700 hours (as opposed to 1500 hours) for graduates of a Part 141 University based flight training program. That won't guarantee anything, but it will make you employable by a Regional a lot sooner.

I'd seriously consider attending a school that offers helicopter training. That training is so expensive, it's nearly impossible to get otherwise, unless you hit the powerball. GI Bill will pay for that. So, if you want to explore the possibilities of being a sling wing guy....

Finally, if you want to fly for a living, but don't want to go the airline route, give our program a look: http://www1.crk.umn.edu/academics/agnatr/aviation/

We offer degrees in Agronomy, Business Management, Law Enforcement and Natural Resources, all with an emphasis in aviation. We don't have all the big airplane bells and whistles, but we are partnered with UND (just the other side of the Red RIver) and our students have access to all UND's courses, though they may have to commute.

So, give some serious consideration to what you want to do with your life FIRST. That will help to pin down where you want to go to school. There are lots of good aviation universities out there.

I'd generally stay away from two year schools. In this economy, you'll need a four year degree, and starting and staying in a four year school makes that a LITTLE smoother. Not always, but....

Finally, the latest version of Chapter 33 DOES NOT require that you attend a University degree program to be reimbursed for flight training expenses. You CAN just do flight training, at an approved school. Check with a VA rep for more specifics on that...I don't deal with that, but it's doable.

Good luck,

MTV

MTV,

Youre right on the rotory wing ratings. I found a school in Oregon that offers ratings in both fixed wing & rotary wing that I'm heavily considering, mainly because one of my buddies from my old unit already got out & is attending.

The GI bill will pay for flight training, but no housing allowance. Kinda a killer, because the housing allowance is very helpful. I figure if I use the post 9/11 & go through an institute of higher learning, I get all those ratings, plus a degree, and I get the housing allowance. It might take more time, & I might end up with less hours in the end, but it would be less out of pocket expences for me. I'm young & can make up time. No sense in me rushing things if I can do it more cost-effective.

Metropolitan State College in Denver offers aviation degrees if you are looking for something closer.

Anyone know anything about National Aviation Academy? I know its not a degree program they offer, and I'm not sure if the GI bill would be any good there, but I was wondering if anyone knows how reputable this establishment is.

One thing to keep in mind is that whatever direction you choose, you should have a "back-up plan", something that you can fall back on if you should lose your medical or get grounded for some other reason. For those of us who fly primarily for recreation, being shot out of the cockpit is a huge disappointment, but it's not nearly as critical as for those who depend on flying for a living. When I was grounded for several months during cancer treatment, being grounded made no difference in my income. But for my friend in Idaho who is both a professional pilot and IA, being grounded from flying and being temporarily physically disabled from "mechanicing" has hurt him tremendously, financially.

Cary

Apex,
If you want to stay in Colorado check out the aviation department at Metropolitan State College in Denver.
I finished my four year degree there.

Cary wrote:One thing to keep in mind is that whatever direction you choose, you should have a "back-up plan", something that you can fall back on if you should lose your medical or get grounded for some other reason. For those of us who fly primarily for recreation, being shot out of the cockpit is a huge disappointment, but it's not nearly as critical as for those who depend on flying for a living. When I was grounded for several months during cancer treatment, being grounded made no difference in my income. But for my friend in Idaho who is both a professional pilot and IA, being grounded from flying and being temporarily physically disabled from "mechanicing" has hurt him tremendously, financially.

Cary

Excellent point, and one that most young aspiring pilots fail to consider. We were all invincible at that point in our lives. It's why we do "Dual Function" degrees at UM.

MTV

If you are interested in Helicopter ratings, try Treasure Valley Community College in Caldwell, Idaho. The flight training is through Silverhawk Aviation Academy. Silverhawkaviation.net

Good Luck

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I hear what y'all are saying about the very real possibility of losing my medical. I've got a solid background in satcom, radio, & antenna theory, along with certificates & years of experience I've gathered over the years from my military career, so I always have that to fall back on.

Having gone through a flying program at a university, let me chime in here. They will typically be more expensive and not necessarily better in terms of the training/education that you receive. Now, listen carefully to this, if you are planning on flying for a living, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHAT SCHOOL YOU ATTEND! Yes, some might have opportunities to do internships with airlines, but consider this: the bigger the university, the more competition for those intern slots. You'd be better off choosing a smaller program that has slots that may be going unfilled...or at least less competition for those slots.

Something else to consider if you are wanting to fly for a living. Airlines also do not care if your degree is in aviation or basket weaving. They just want to see a degree. Actually, you are better off getting a degree in something else that you either enjoy and would like to do for a living, or already have skills/experience in. Why? So that when you loose your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. job, you will have something to fall back on to earn a living.

My personal advice is to find a 141 flight school that isn't going to rape you for the flying the newest and latest aircraft on the market. Find one with both steam gauge and glass cockpit aircraft, utilizing steam gauges as your primary aircraft. (Also a misnomer that glass is going to look good on a resume.) Get some exposure, but the situational skills you develop using steam guages, instead of a moving map, are of more value. Also keep in mind most aircraft out there flying for hire (with the exception of some corporate aircraft) are now where near advance as newer GA aircraft and you could be in for a bit of a shock if that is all you know. You'll get more distance out of your gov dollars going this route.

Anyway, there is my two cents. So you know where I come from, I fly the A320, still a current, active CFII, have flown for government, corporate, and for 3 airlines.

Good luck!

Grassstrippilot wrote:Having gone through a flying program at a university, let me chime in here. They will typically be more expensive and not necessarily better in terms of the training/education that you receive. Now, listen carefully to this, if you are planning on flying for a living, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHAT SCHOOL YOU ATTEND! Yes, some might have opportunities to do internships with airlines, but consider this: the bigger the university, the more competition for those intern slots. You'd be better off choosing a smaller program that has slots that may be going unfilled...or at least less competition for those slots.

Something else to consider if you are wanting to fly for a living. Airlines also do not care if your degree is in aviation or basket weaving. They just want to see a degree. Actually, you are better off getting a degree in something else that you either enjoy and would like to do for a living, or already have skills/experience in. Why? So that when you loose your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. job, you will have something to fall back on to earn a living.

My personal advice is to find a 141 flight school that isn't going to rape you for the flying the newest and latest aircraft on the market. Find one with both steam gauge and glass cockpit aircraft, utilizing steam gauges as your primary aircraft. (Also a misnomer that glass is going to look good on a resume.) Get some exposure, but the situational skills you develop using steam guages, instead of a moving map, are of more value. Also keep in mind most aircraft out there flying for hire (with the exception of some corporate aircraft) are now where near advance as newer GA aircraft and you could be in for a bit of a shock if that is all you know. You'll get more distance out of your gov dollars going this route.

Anyway, there is my two cents. So you know where I come from, I fly the A320, still a current, active CFII, have flown for government, corporate, and for 3 airlines.

Good luck!

And, every aspiring aviator should have that message tattooed on their foreheads (reversed of course) so that they can re-read it every time they look at themselves in a mirror.

Great advice!!

MTV

I have to agree with what grasstrip said too. Get a degree in something not aviation related. Fallback, alternate, more rounded.

Another thing about big schools. When I first got my CFI I was scraping for very few open positions in my area. When I did get a slot and started training with a fellow CFI from UND I was expecting to be blown away by skill and professionalism - almost psyched out even.

My fears were unfounded. She lacked skills under the hood and didn't have any passion for teaching (don't bother being a CFI without that). I seriously hope she wasn't typical of UND.

A while later we hired two more kids (I was in my late 30s and tired of driving a desk) from a state school that would also get you an interview anywhere. One afternoon we had to fly to Oregon and retrieve a plane that had been left there by a VFR pilot. I grabbed one of the youngsters and declared he would fly one of the planes back IFR. After a few minutes he came clean and told me he had zero hours of actual (neither did the other kid) and the idea scared the crap out of him. At least he fessed up before we left, that could have really sucked.

Years ago I got a checkout from a CFI with a fresh ATP in his pocket, he lamented he had never been in the clouds. If you follow very many threads here you will find all of us over 30 lament the lack of basic flying experience in our profession's newly minted airline pilots. Sure, they have all the licenses and a degree but if they have more than 1.9 in the clouds or have just rented an airplane and flown out for a $100 hamburger without 3 other classmates I would be surprised.
The "get a degree in something you like and learn to fly at your local school" is an idea that should not be dismissed.

I also agree with grasstrippilot. I went to one of the aviation schools thinking you needed an aviation degree to get into the airlines, wish someone would have told me the truth. If I were to do it over I'd get a degree in something else at a cheaper college and fly at a locall FBO. The airline industry is extremely volital, you always need something else you can do. The first year I was at an airline we doubled in size, the next we were decreasing by half, the next we were sold, then they're bankrupt, next more reductions, and then possibly out of business, I could go on more but that's just the nature of the industry, you just have to roll with it and have something else that you can make a living at.