I THINK this is the right place to post this.....

I did a search and didn't find anything directly, so I'll query you all here.

Is there an outfit out there somewhere that teaches Backcountry, Bush type flying for Light Sport Pilots? With the rise of the popularity of the Rans S7, Kitfox SS, Just Higlander etc, I've got to assume that more and more Sport Pilots are going to be wanting to learn the intricacies of bush flying.

I've seen bush pilot schools in AK and other places advertised, but they're all for Standard Certificate airplanes/Private Pilots......is anyone out there doing this for the Sport Pilot?

For transparency i'll add that I'm a low-time sport pilot STUDENT who knows he has no business trying to fly anywhere except to where my instructor tells me to , but I'm also cognisant of the fact that flying always presents new challenges, and in the future, some advanced/continued training in the fine art of landing uphill could be in order.

Thoughts?

The aicraft you mention are all very capable backcountry performers. I've found that many of the backcountry schools and/or instructors have no problem giving instruction in them.

Here's one of the best around: http://stick-rudder.com/

SkySteve wrote:Here's one of the best around: http://stick-rudder.com/

I was JUST about to respond with a request for recommendations from anyone who has first hand knowledge of any "Lower 48" schools!!!

Any other suggestions for schools that aren't type-specific? (I'm leaning towards S-7 for the tandem seating as I'm awfully broad through the...well through everything).

Thanks!!!

Sean

Andover flight in New Jersey has a good reputation. No personal experience.

Are you training in a tailwheel LSA?

soyAnarchisto wrote:Are you training in a tailwheel LSA?

Yep training in a T-Crate BC-12D now, but it's AWFULLY cramped.

You're going to have a hard time finding much more than the stick and rudder guy in the kitfox giving backcountry instruction. 2up flying in density altitude situations and off-airport operations- can and is done - but most guys want ponies under the hood. Nothing says you can't get a mountain checkout and dual in a certificated plane, then take the skills back to your own personal T-cart should you choose.

Another option for you to try is Mark Pringle's company - he's a Rans dealer out of Utah. I don't know if they offer instruction in his Rans (needs to be s-lsa for commercial ops) - but he does list instruction on his web site. At a minimum he can hook you up with a demo ride in his turbocharged S7S (Rotax 914). I know he will be at Airventure, as well:

http://www.rmkplanes.com/Flightinstruction.html

'Greg

Sorry for the confusion.....

I'm training in a T-Crate and once that's over, I'll probably never set in one again. They're too small for my frame. I'm CURRENTLY in the market for an 100hp S7S or POSSIBLY a 100hp S6 sxs. My top dollar and the bottom dollar on both are unfortunately about $8500 apart. So in the interim, I'll keep my Sport Pilot training in the T-Crate till I need to check ride (no DPE's that'll fit with me) or till I procure an airplane. There are ZERO plans for my flying career to continue in a T-Craft past my initial training.

You might gain some information from this topic on the Highlander forum.
http://www.wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=19668

Windknot wrote: I'll keep my Sport Pilot training in the T-Crate till I need to check ride (no DPE's that'll fit with me) or till I procure an airplane.

And, therein lies one of the "dirty little secrets" and in my opinion, the fatal flaws of the Sport Pilot business..... An outfit near here bought two SLSA trainers, but the only DPE around there is way too large (ie: heavy) to give checkrides in the airplanes for MOST students. The applicants are having to fly the SLSA 70 miles or so to fly with a smaller DPE.....

Unless prospective pilots and flight instructors/DPEs lose a LOT of weight, Sport Pilot certificates are going to be hard to accomplish in most of these machines.

And, for those who wink at the gross weight thing, I know of at least one DPE who lost all his certificates because he gave a checkride in an airplane (not LSA) that the two of them (applicant and DPE) could not have legally flown. Not sure how the FAA figured it out, but.....be advised, if they have reason (like an incident) to get into the person's logbook, they are likely to be looking at checkrides and dual instruction flights.....

MTV

mtv wrote:

Windknot wrote: I'll keep my Sport Pilot training in the T-Crate till I need to check ride (no DPE's that'll fit with me) or till I procure an airplane.

And, therein lies one of the "dirty little secrets" and in my opinion, the fatal flaws of the Sport Pilot business..... An outfit near here bought two SLSA trainers, but the only DPE around there is way too large (ie: heavy) to give checkrides in the airplanes for MOST students. The applicants are having to fly the SLSA 70 miles or so to fly with a smaller DPE.....

Unless prospective pilots and flight instructors/DPEs lose a LOT of weight, Sport Pilot certificates are going to be hard to accomplish in most of these machines.

And, for those who wink at the gross weight thing, I know of at least one DPE who lost all his certificates because he gave a checkride in an airplane (not LSA) that the two of them (applicant and DPE) could not have legally flown. Not sure how the FAA figured it out, but.....be advised, if they have reason (like an incident) to get into the person's logbook, they are likely to be looking at checkrides and dual instruction flights.....

MTV

That is certainly the case with many of the older certified aircraft and several of the heavier SLSAs but it is not as big an issue with a lot of the newer kit planes. My S-6 has a useful load over 600lbs and more room than a C-150/152. The S-7 is much the same. The Highlander and most of the newer Kitfoxes are similar. The same holds true for most of the lightweight composite LSA's . If it's loaded with all the bells and whistles, multiple glass panels, plush seats, super-tanker fuel tanks and and an auto-pilot, you will have a hard time staying under gross with 2 adults. Sure you can fly a Carbon Cub LSA but not with 2 normal sized adults. The same goes for the new versions of the Champ. It all depends on your mission.
Additionally, unlike the T-craft, my S-6 does just fine at altitude in the summer. I routinely fly with a 200lb(+) passenger and
while I won't win any climb out awards, it is safe and fun even with temps in the low 90's. (and legal) Most of the T-crafts, Champs and J-3s around here are early morning solo planes in the summer.
Personally, I think LSA is alive and well despite the weight limits.

S-12Flyer wrote:That is certainly the case with many of the older certified aircraft and several of the heavier SLSAs but it is not as big an issue with a lot of the newer kit planes. My S-6 has a useful load over 600lbs and more room than a C-150/152. The S-7 is much the same. The Highlander and most of the newer Kitfoxes are similar. The same holds true for most of the lightweight composite LSA's . If it's loaded with all the bells and whistles, multiple glass panels, plush seats, super-tanker fuel tanks and and an auto-pilot, you will have a hard time staying under gross with 2 adults. Sure you can fly a Carbon Cub LSA but not with 2 normal sized adults. The same goes for the new versions of the Champ. It all depends on your mission.
Additionally, unlike the T-craft, my S-6 does just fine at altitude in the summer. I routinely fly with a 200lb(+) passenger and
while I won't win any climb out awards, it is safe and fun even with temps in the low 90's. (and legal) Most of the T-crafts, Champs and J-3s around here are early morning solo planes in the summer.
Personally, I think LSA is alive and well despite the weight limits.

MTV, If I may, I'd like to respond here to this - S-12Flyer, I BELIEVE what MTV was eluding to was (and is my hurdle to overcome) to many, the last remaining barrier to enjoying the privileges of the Sport Pilot ticket. What I believe MTV was trying to say was that for the student/new pilot just getting started, there are so FEW aircraft that meet the LSA criteria to begin with, and those that are available are almost entirely made up of aged, Standard certificate aircraft "Legacy LSA's" as another person from a different board called them (I really like that term "Legacy LSA"). And because of the limited GTOW and the corresponding empty/useful loads, that makes for a small student and a LARGE DPE or a LARGE student and a very small DPE....and unfortunately, there are few SMALL DPE's.

Now, if a large fella such as myself chooses to BUY a newer LSA (I'm currently shopping Exp/Am built S-6's and 7's) one can easily "make the weight" with a Large DPE....but the problem is that the majority of us (including myself) cant really afford or cannot justify (to the wife) the purchase of a $40-$50K airplane......therein MTV's Catch 22 lives.

So....I agree with both of you. MTV's points are 100% valid, as are S-12Flyer's.

I'm off for another lesson in the T-crate this morning. "the rudder is my friend, the rudder is my friend......"

For those of us stuck on the East Coast , there is an excellent instructor with numerous landing sites of various configurations at Hickory NC. Brandon has an excellent style of instruction and has a Sport Cub he uses or you can use your own airplane. I carried my Legend Cub and a friend carried his Husky. There is also a Remos for rent.He also instructed in an X Air and some others I know of. The mountains near Hickory really do have great challenges. Give him a try, you will not be disappointed.

http://tablerockaviation.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCZJCBw4g0A

Tsnplanes,

I notice that the strip you posted the video to (Strawberry Ridge) is not in the shortfield.com database - and most of the strips around Hickory have very little information and no pireps.

I have family in NC, and my brother is a pilot, and my nephew is in school at Western Carolina. I'd love to get some recent information about the strips in the area.

Can you have a look in the shortfield.com database - add any strips you are aware of that are commonly used for training? Are any of these open to the public? If private, how does one go about getting permission to land?

You've flown with Brandon? Is he good? I found their web site and have thought about going out there for some flying. I love the Appalachian mountains.

'Greg

There used to be a guy based at Tacoma Narrows airport in Washington that did SP instruction in his CC Sport Cub. He got his own SP ticket then went on to get his SP instructor license. His name was George (last name?) and used to post on the PNF site (& I thought here also?) as "Coulee One" or something like that. I believe he moved to Arizona but might stlll be instructing. Esp for being a fairly new pilot, he was a helluva good stick & instructor according to someone I knew who flew with him.

SkySteve wrote:Here's one of the best around: http://stick-rudder.com/

The website looks great-- if the experience matches it, it'd be awesome.
This looks like a really good show for anyone who is building or buying a Kitfox, to get some type-specific training. As well as for someone who wants to get up to speed flying a tailwheel airplane, and/or get a sport pilot ticket. Or all of the above!
Van's has a similar arrangement with a local pilot who does RV checkouts in Vernonia OR. A guy I know who built an RV9 went down & flew with the guy before the first flight in his own airplane & said it was an invaluable experience.
BTW the stick-rudder site has a lionk to Kitfox-- the base price for the Kitfox super sport S-LSA is about $89K. Probably have to add some stuff but it looks like for less than a hundred you'd have a pretty capable (and cool) brand new airplane. It's above my pay grade but not so for the people who are paying well over a hundred for those little George Jetson looking plastic LSA's made in eastern Europe.

The website looks great-- if the experience matches it, it'd be awesome.

Having followed Paul into and out of a few of Idaho's backcountry airstrips and through various drainages, I can say he is a master at his trade and an all around good guy.

+3 for Paul Leadabrand at Stick and Rudder Aviation.

He's very professional, maintains his aircraft in pristine condition, he's well organized, and has a lot of local knowledge and experience. You'll really enjoy the training and it's a great introduction to the Kitfox Super Sport and LSA.

I'd also recommend his option to base part or all of your training out of a backcountry hunting lodge. It maximizes your backcountry flight time, and is great experience all round.

Last Thursday Mike Bolin -Flight Instructor was Killed on Biannual flight review in LSA . Bill Berle has more details than me . Light Sport's are too unforgiving for me --