I've been a nose wheel pilot ever since I got my liscense (200ish hours). I've always loved the looks and extra abilities of TW aircraft and would love to own one some day or at least get a TW endorsement. With that being said the phrase "bad habits of nose wheel pilots" always comes up but never really described. I think I know what some of them are but I would love to hear specifics for one be a better pilot and two be more prepared for a future transition.

Thanks

My bad habit is being too lazy with the rudder pedals.

As a CFI who specializes in t-wheel and backcountry instruction a few "bad habits" immediately come to mind for nosepickers transitioning to taildraggers. The first is the bad habit of not holding the stick/yoke back all the time. Nosedraggers tend to go neutral when landing and even when taxiing thus increasing loss of control and directional control problems. The second problem is lack of rudder control. Nosedraggers tend to have not learned to use their rudder effectively and with a taildragger perfection is required in the use of rudder for take-off and landing. Tailwheels also tend to need more coordinated rudder in turns. You should be flying that way in a nosewheel too but the truth is many nosewheel pilots are pretty sloppy. Keep in mind, however, there are some very fine and skilled nosewheel backcountry pilots flying some nicely equipped planes. So a tailwheel isn't necessarily the only wrench in the bag when it comes to backcountry. They have their definate advantages in very rough terrain though.

The rudder input attentiveness for tailwheel aircraft, as compared to trike aircraft, is much more demanding. The secret to keeping a tailwheel aircraft straight is very frequent small inputs of rudder vs a heavy foot to either side, while never allowing the CG to get too far off the nose. Because of this, like M5guy said, rudder control perfection becomes paramount. You don't realize how inattentive you are to rudder until you must be.

Also, crosswind landings and takeoffs are a very active operation, as the tail wants to weathervane the nose into alignment with the wind. If a taildragger is not let down with the longitudinal axis very nicely aligned to the direction of travel, and that alignment maintained, things can get very exciting very fast. Trikes just sort of take care of that for you, and that's why trike pilots get lazy. Kinda nice sometimes.

Not having a sat phone, and your insurance company on speed dial...J/K.

avi8ter wrote:Not having a sat phone, and your insurance company on speed dial...J/K.

Chuckling in mild amusement here. Yes probably so. And nose wheel pilots don't need to bring a wheelbarrow in order to walk on their hind legs either.

I began flying in tricycle airplanes and decided that I wanted to fly tail draggers so I found someone that instructed in a J-3. I quickly leaned that I did not understand how to use the peddles and I didn't use them enough. I went to the U.S. Army's helicopter flight school in Alabama and found out how much more I needed to learn about using peddles. I have not got many fixed wing hours since I finished helicopter training so I have can't say if I have improved at all... I do know that it took me some time to unlearn bad habits from flying Cessna tricycles.

Assuming that everbody can see over the nose of their plane.

Tim

Assuming that everbody can see over the nose of their plane.

Of course, that's followed quickly by td drivers assuming that there's nothing being blocked by the nose of their airplanes!

For myself, as a primarily trike driver and formerly instructing exclusively in trikes, I'd say that lazy peddle work is the primary bad habit of most trike drivers, so that the airplane isn't fully lined up with the runway during crosswind landings--or sometimes in no wind landings, either!

Cary

Reprehensible Cessna snake oil salesmen, lurking around the flight school, peddling their Land-o-matics, making claims that you don't even need pedals for the new forthcoming 172 model...

While trike flyers may get lazy with the pedals, you don't hear of many of them doing ground loops or other rollout related accidents. (Although I saw 182 in the weeds at JC a few years ago.) I think the stability of a tricycle is well worth the derision it generates.

tom

Savannah-Tom wrote:While trike flyers may get lazy with the pedals, you don't hear of many of them doing ground loops or other rollout related accidents. (Although I saw 182 in the weeds at JC a few years ago.) I think the stability of a tricycle is well worth the derision it generates.

tom

You're absolutely right. Taildraggers are an outmoded, unnecessary risk for 99% of pilots, myself included. But, like so many things in my life, I've chosen the more difficult, less rational path because of aesthetics...e.g. fly fishing, telemark skiing, linux.

Zane wrote:You're absolutely right. Taildraggers are an outmoded, unnecessary risk for 99% of pilots, myself included. But, like so many things in my life, I've chosen the more difficult, less rational path because of aesthetics...e.g. fly fishing, telemark skiing, linux.

Not to mention no nose wheelers made the Most Bad Ass Bushplane Photo thread. Even the chopper was tailwheel.

However; this attitude is one of the Bad Habits of Tail Dragger Pilots.

Zane wrote:Taildraggers are an outmoded, unnecessary risk for 99% of pilots, myself included. But, like so many things in my life, I've chosen the more difficult, less rational path because of aesthetics...e.g. fly fishing, telemark skiing, linux.

I'm pretty poor with a tailwheel after flying so many years with a nosewheel. I spend a lot more time looking for fishing holes near the strip than I do worrying about crosswinds. It's just the way it is, and the last time I left a twirly in the seat from a tight landing was decades ago- in a taildragger.

And tele *is* the only practical way to ski....

Zane wrote:
But, like so many things in my life, I've chosen the more difficult, less rational path because of aesthetics...

My entire dating history, succinctly summarized.

When I got my private signed off, a friend that had a Beachcraft Muskateer asked if I wanted to share the cost of annuals and insurance for being able to fly it. I jumped at it. After I put on 25 hrs I had this urge to get a big watch with lots on hands.

Hey they are all sots of fun.

Just found a new advantage of a nose roller. That is being able to push the tail and wings over the sage brush so as to only use the same parking space as Mini Coopper. From Mann Lake trip last week.




Tim

I'm now at 140hrs TT, 9hrs in a t/w. Not an expert at anything, mind you - frankly a toddler in the tailwheel. But having flown 95% of my limited time in "modern" and "clean" trike aircraft like the Diamonds - transitioning to a 70's citabria is a big challenge. I get back in the Diamonds - and frankly - they need very little rudder to stay coordinated - particularly in turns. The only time I was really using the rudder was to demonstrate a slip to my cfi. Yes they make you lazy, but most are also cleaner and better rigged and require less rudder - and you can land in higher crosswinds more safely.

BTW, tele is norwegion for "Hey Wait Up!" Do you use leather boots in your 3-pinned straight 205 planks? ;-p

'Greg

soyAnarchisto wrote:BTW, tele is norwegion for "Hey Wait Up!" Do you use leather boots in your 3-pinned straight 205 planks? ;-p

Well, part of that is true... the part you can't solve with money.

My "floppy" tele boots.

dirtstrip wrote:However; this attitude is one of the Bad Habits of Tail Dragger Pilots.

It is well known that your pectorals become more defined, and your testicles slightly greater in volume with every additional hour of tailwheel time... oh wait...that's exactly what you're saying.

It seems that tailwheel pilots with big wheels all seem to walk with their knees farther apart as if they were allowing more room for bigger things than the average pilot. Walk downwind of them after a slight crosswind landing and you soon realize what their pants are actually full of.
Now let me get this straight, years ago a studen pilot would solo any taildragger(conventional gear ) in 5 hrs and get his licence in 20. Now a days its solo in 15 and licence in 55 with a trike. Conclusion has to be trikes are harder to fly than taildraggers.(hehe)
KenW