I have a question about “Bagging strips” in no way do I intend this post to be tong in cheek or smart assed, but when I hire an instructor or have an experienced pilot with me, showing me the safe way to land at a technical strip, is it considered bagging a strip? How can or could an observer tell the difference? In my opinion, the responsible and safe use of back country strips begins with instruction and training from strip to strip. Perhaps proper training is being confused with Bagging. Perhaps bagging a strip isn’t so bad after all.

172heavy wrote:I have a question about “Bagging strips” in no way do I intend this post to be tong in cheek or smart assed, but when I hire an instructor or have an experienced pilot with me, showing me the safe way to land at a technical strip, is it considered bagging a strip? How can or could an observer tell the difference? In my opinion, the responsible and safe use of back country strips begins with instruction and training from strip to strip. Perhaps proper training is being confused with Bagging. Perhaps bagging a strip isn’t so bad after all.

Joe you are a trouble maker, but funny guy. I think you were a bag boy in high school.

G'Day

Rick and I will be @ JC Thur. mid day, looking forward to bending an elbow with you.

Can someone explain to me what ""bagging" strips is, and what is wrong with doing it?

I agree with you, Joe.

Very honestly, I've never heard the term "Bagging Airstrips" until SuperMaule (James) had mentioned it in one of the other threads (unless I missed it from somebody else). I don't see it as "Bagging" if your flying from strip to strip. I see it as exploring and as Joe mentioned above. Same as if your on an ATV, boat, motorcycle, 4x4 vehicle, hiking, horse, etc.

It would be interesting to find out the real hard facts about the use of each and every airstrip just in Idaho. Maybe have a 3rd party unbiased organization put 1-2 persons at each and every airstrip from 1st of May through the end of Oct and document every plane that lands and takes off (N#, date and time). My guess is that airplanes based inside Idaho or within 100 miles of the Idaho state line are the greatest users of the Idaho backcountry airstrip network year round when possible.

One of our good friends here on BCP is spending his hard earned vacation and a bunch of gas money on his once a year trip to Idaho that he saved up and planned very well for I'm sure for the last year. Do I think he should explore as many airstrips as he wants while he's in Idaho for about a week before he heads back south for another year? Heck yeah!! And the same for others!

IMHO, I think the whole "Bagging" airstrip thing got blown way out of proportion. And while on the subject of a few persons (SuperMaule as one of them) thoughts about restricting the exploration (AKA "Bagging") of the Idaho airstrip network. I find it interesting that a BCP member (SuperMaule) from northern Idaho also was complaining in another one of his threads about out of staters (AKA "Transplants from CA") buying up land and putting up locked gates and "No Trespassing" signs on their properties and restricting his and his buddies old hunting grounds. I dunno, I think I'm confused on this one.

Skateboarding is not a crime, and neither is strip bagging. Unless ya wear yer god-damned pants on the ground - then ye should be shot. Wait, are guns still legal? You can bag strips just pull yer pants up - and make sure you bend the brim of yer hat. No baggie bagging.

'soyAnarchisto

The term got abused in a couple of JC threads. James felt that the common practice of exploring a number of strips in the vicinity of a fly-in was akin to motocross, skateboarding and any number unsavory deeds. Many fly-ins arrange poker runs to facilitate visitors in getting to know an area. In his opinion the sheer numbers of planes would stir the evil empire of eco-freaks to lash out and demand closure of all our backcountry strips. Despite a fair amount of government funding and pressure to keep them open. Every fly-in from Oshkosh to Sun-N_Fun and down to your local EAA chapter meeting draws attention. How we spin it as a group in more important. If we present it in a positive fun way, it will largely be perceived that way. If we piss and moan about a few less than perfect flyers, it will be perceived in that light.
Someone who "certificates pilots and helicopter pilots" should know that practice make perfect. The best way to improve your skills is not to spend hour after hours in the pattern of your home strip but to explore a variety of strips in a variety of conditions. I,for one, took exception to being called unsafe and irresponsible because I happen to disagree with his views.
One of the great things about this open forum is the exchange of ideas. I plan on posting here as long as Zane lets me even if I happen to disagree with what others say.
This site is a treasure trove of knowledge sprinkled with inane banter. Basically what all hanger flying is like.
Thanks Zane!

The biggest issue seems to be that certain strips popular to be "bagged" are in remote, relatively wild places. When over a hundred planes show up at JC and then they play musical chairs visiting all of the local strips, the level of commotion destroys the backcountry experience for many pilots (that's why I and others don't go to JC on the fly-in weekends), along with infuriating virtually every hiker, backpacker, kayaker, bird watcher, and Forest Service employee in the area. Beyond that, the wildlife aren't too happy either as I've seen elk, deer, cranes, geese, etc., leave the area where I was camped at a strip when several planes showed up all at once.

From my perspective, there's nothing wrong with bagging strips in the wilderness -- if you're not in a group! It might just be an internet legend, but I'm reminded of the Super Bowl. Right after the halftime show, the New York sewers allegedly surge and sometimes plug up because everyone flushes at the same time.

Encouraging vast numbers of people to visit the Idaho wilderness all at the same time is guaranteed to cause problems. BCP pilots can identify the problems and mitigate them, or they can leave that task to others. You can complain about ecofreaks and tree huggers, but there are quite a few local pilots around here that absolutely *HATE* the 180, supercub, and BCP fly-ins. In fact, a couple of them have told me they would support closing strips if there was no other way to stop the overuse during fly-ins. I won't be able to visit half the strips until I get a more capable plane, so I'm hoping that all this doesn't boil over too quickly.

58Skylane wrote:I agree with you, Joe.

Very honestly, I've never heard the term "Bagging Airstrips" until SuperMaule (James) had mentioned it in one of the other threads (unless I missed it from somebody else). I don't see it as "Bagging" if your flying from strip to strip. I see it as exploring and as Joe mentioned above. Same as if your on an ATV, boat, motorcycle, 4x4 vehicle, hiking, horse, etc.

It would be interesting to find out the real hard facts about the use of each and every airstrip just in Idaho. Maybe have a 3rd party unbiased organization put 1-2 persons at each and every airstrip from 1st of May through the end of Oct and document every plane that lands and takes off (N#, date and time). My guess is that airplanes based inside Idaho or within 100 miles of the Idaho state line are the greatest users of the Idaho backcountry airstrip network year round when possible.

One of our good friends here on BCP is spending his hard earned vacation and a bunch of gas money on his once a year trip to Idaho that he saved up and planned very well for I'm sure for the last year. Do I think he should explore as many airstrips as he wants while he's in Idaho for about a week before he heads back south for another year? Heck yeah!! And the same for others!

IMHO, I think the whole "Bagging" airstrip thing got blown way out of proportion. And while on the subject of a few persons (SuperMaule as one of them) thoughts about restricting the exploration (AKA "Bagging") of the Idaho airstrip network. I find it interesting that a BCP member (SuperMaule) from northern Idaho also was complaining in another one of his threads about out of staters (AKA "Transplants from CA") buying up land and putting up locked gates and "No Trespassing" signs on their properties and restricting his and his buddies old hunting grounds. I dunno, I think I'm confused on this one.

I really can't understand why you keep bringing up the whole "turf war" concept on James's recent post?? This has nothing to do with where you live but has everything to do with back country flying edicate. When I say "backcountry" I am referring to the wilderness areas and mostly the Big Creek 4 that have had so much pressure for closure from the USFS for many years. We are lucky to have these strips open and a lot of credit goes to the RAF and IAA for defending these areas from closure. Many of the USFS employees stationed near these ares are "eco extremists" and would like nothing better than to shut these down to "protect" the wilderness. I have spoke to many of them and few are airplane friendly. Wouldn't it suck if we had to get permits like the rafters do to be able to land at a strip to enable the USFS to limit use to a certain number of landings per year? They are extremely capable of this and that's where I see it going if this continues. It will be interesting to see what the RAF has to say about this on Saturday because I have a feeling it will come up and they are the ones on the frontlines defending access to these areas and can share the position of the USFS and other groups that are concerned about wilderness flying.

On another note I happen to fly and socialize with Super-Maule (James) regularly and many of you have completely mis-judged his character and the intentions of his posts. James is one of our biggest allies in protecting back country flying and trying to keep people safe in airplanes. He is a great assest to aviation and we need to be glad there are people like him "on the inside" and actually working for us and trying to protect our flying freedoms. Let's drop the personnal attacks and move on to something productive.

all good points and well taken, for sure. as a local, i think that all of us would be surprised at how LITTLE use a lot of the strips get. JC being an exception, as well as the very cool breakfast spots, both in and out of the frank. u might want to go inspect the foot travel up the grand teton, u almost need a number to go climb that one! it is popular, and fun! the traffic issue both there and the frank with us, is a fact of life. i am glad that we can visit both. i dont know James, but i think that he is way passionate about both his job and his recreation, which i think is cool. lots of us are snowmobilers,adventure bikers, skiers,and etc. so maybe calling us moto-heads/boarders is pretty accurate!

certain times there will be a lot of activity in back-country places in the west...been to yellowstone lately? the tetons? the selway and the frank are no exception. MOST of the time, i would say over 80%, it is all pretty quiet...when folks venture to JC for a fly-in or whatever, it doesn't mean that they are landing every strip in the frank, most don't.and, without some help, they probably shouldn't anyway..one of my pals likes to say flying the back-country is not a do it yourself project, and she is right on! so, i say no matter where u are from, enjoy our states largest treasure, be damn careful, and be respectful of your surroundings and other people, pilots or otherwise...!

66skylane wrote:On another note I happen to fly and socialize with Super-Maule (James) regularly and many of you have completely mis-judged his character and the intentions of his posts. James is one of our biggest allies in protecting back country flying and trying to keep people safe in airplanes. He is a great assest to aviation and we need to be glad there are people like him "on the inside" and actually working for us and trying to protect our flying freedoms. Let's drop the pathetic personnal attacks and start to act like grown ups and re-establish some maturity on this site.

Yes. Thank you.

66skylane wrote:

58Skylane wrote:I agree with you, Joe.

Very honestly, I've never heard the term "Bagging Airstrips" until SuperMaule (James) had mentioned it in one of the other threads (unless I missed it from somebody else). I don't see it as "Bagging" if your flying from strip to strip. I see it as exploring and as Joe mentioned above. Same as if your on an ATV, boat, motorcycle, 4x4 vehicle, hiking, horse, etc.

It would be interesting to find out the real hard facts about the use of each and every airstrip just in Idaho. Maybe have a 3rd party unbiased organization put 1-2 persons at each and every airstrip from 1st of May through the end of Oct and document every plane that lands and takes off (N#, date and time). My guess is that airplanes based inside Idaho or within 100 miles of the Idaho state line are the greatest users of the Idaho backcountry airstrip network year round when possible.

One of our good friends here on BCP is spending his hard earned vacation and a bunch of gas money on his once a year trip to Idaho that he saved up and planned very well for I'm sure for the last year. Do I think he should explore as many airstrips as he wants while he's in Idaho for about a week before he heads back south for another year? Heck yeah!! And the same for others!

IMHO, I think the whole "Bagging" airstrip thing got blown way out of proportion. And while on the subject of a few persons (SuperMaule as one of them) thoughts about restricting the exploration (AKA "Bagging") of the Idaho airstrip network. I find it interesting that a BCP member (SuperMaule) from northern Idaho also was complaining in another one of his threads about out of staters (AKA "Transplants from CA") buying up land and putting up locked gates and "No Trespassing" signs on their properties and restricting his and his buddies old hunting grounds. I dunno, I think I'm confused on this one.

I really can't understand why you keep bringing up the whole "turf war" concept on James's recent post?? This has nothing to do with where you live but has everything to do with back country flying edicate. When I say "backcountry" I am referring to the wilderness areas and mostly the Big Creek 4 that have had so much pressure for closure from the USFS for many years. We are lucky to have these strips open and a lot of credit goes to the RAF and IAA for defending these areas from closure. Many of the USFS employees stationed near these ares are "eco extremists" and would like nothing better than to shut these down to "protect" the wilderness. I have spoke to many of them and few are airplane friendly. Wouldn't it suck if we had to get permits like the rafters do to be able to land at a strip to enable the USFS to limit use to a certain number of landings per year? They are extremely capable of this and that's where I see it going if this continues. It will be interesting to see what the RAF has to say about this on Saturday because I have a feeling it will come up and they are the ones on the frontlines defending access to these areas and can share the position of the USFS and other groups that are concerned about wilderness flying.

On another note I happen to fly and socialize with Super-Maule (James) regularly and many of you have completely mis-judged his character and the intentions of his posts. James is one of our biggest allies in protecting back country flying and trying to keep people safe in airplanes. He is a great assest to aviation and we need to be glad there are people like him "on the inside" and actually working for us and trying to protect our flying freedoms. Let's drop the personnal attacks and move on to something productive.

Can you tell me where in my above post I made a "Personal Attack"? Maybe my last paragraph? That was comments I remember reading from another thread. Just facts that where posted on another thread. Sorry, but the way James has written alot of his post's tells me that he's all for having the Idaho wilderness to himself and his close circle of friends. And I believe he has made it very clear in some of the his post's on other threads that he does not care for most "Transplanted Californians" which I am. Of coarse that's going to start some shit! What do you expect? Shit, I've even tried to chat with him on the Live Chat Room up top before (on a few occasions). He didn't reply to any of my chat's and this was way before his Transplanted Californian neighbor issue. So right there I knew the guy didn't care for me (which I could care less anyway). So what do you think I'm going to think of the guy?

Hey man, I'm sure James is a great guy to the right people.

Anyway, I'm done with this! Can't wait to get my plane fixed and go explore the Idaho Backcountry Airstrip Network.

"Can someone explain to me what ""bagging" strips is, and what is wrong with doing it?" EZ?

You guys gotta quit making me do this. I Google bagging and this is what I come up with

Bagging is term I heard first as in "peak bagging". I.e. the more peaks/small mountain tops one could do - preferably in the shortest amount of time.

Strip bagging, or bagging strips, would be the same, except with landing strips.

I think that's a neutral defination

66skylane wrote:.... Let's drop the personnal attacks and move on to something productive.

I agree. And add "finger-pointing" to the list of things not to do.
I don't blame anyone for wanting to visit several different airstrips on his once-a-year trip to far-off Idaho. But I can also see that the sheer numbers of airplanes in the area on these big fly-in weekends make for a bit of a zoo when everybody wants fly out & hit a bunch of different places. Maybe it's not really comparable but locally I've also seen when a few buddies go out to fly somewhere together & end up doing group fly-bys somewhere-- it must seem cool to them & maybe to their friends on the ground, but it's a noisy PITA to everyone else.
Moderation in all things I guess is the best policy.

66skylane wrote:
On another note I happen to fly and socialize with Super-Maule (James) regularly and many of you have completely mis-judged his character and the intentions of his posts. James is one of our biggest allies in protecting back country flying and trying to keep people safe in airplanes. He is a great assest to aviation and we need to be glad there are people like him "on the inside" and actually working for us and trying to protect our flying freedoms. Let's drop the pathetic personnal attacks and start to act like grown ups and re-establish some maturity on this site.


Yes. Thank you.

Just a note and my $.02
I have been fortunate to have in my career to have landed in some very remote and unreal places.
I am building a Glastar and a M4 Frankin plane to go see some more!
I am not a crowd type person!
Have been to the JC BCP gathering twice, once in an ugly M6 and the other time in a RV6.
I also have worked with SuperMaule, in fact when my Dad passed away we were looking at his old pictures and I jumped on the Internet and looked up all the old N#'s of his planes, Guess what SuperMaule's plane My Dad bought new and picked up from BD, even stayed at BD's house for a couple of days!
I'm glad people like to get together and share, just tome so much.
Please don't kick James to hard, You have not been in his shoes!
He has been to alot of wrecks to help determine what happened, He also has seen alot of body parts still in there!
I am about as big a outlaw as there is out here and I still get along and have great respect for James!
He has been on a check ride with me, have worked with him, and I am proud to call him a friend, even with where he works and what he does!! I am very glad he does work there as he is far above many who do!!!!
He is an honest man who does his Job, loves the backcountry, flying, recreating, hunting and fishing, family, and the USA.
Look in the mirror, look out through the window before you start throwing rocks?
Lets all pull on our BIG Boy Pants and act like adults!! Even I can do that most of the time.
We all live in the Great USA! Let's work at keeping it great and all the rest of this will workits self out.
Like all of you, Ihope to still be able to go take a look at those strips I have not been into.
And yes, there are people out ther who can't stand us!! That's life
Happy to be alive, well enough to fly, and fortunate enough to have a bird to fly in!
GT

kevbert wrote:From my perspective, there's nothing wrong with bagging strips in the wilderness -- if you're not in a group!.....
Encouraging vast numbers of people to visit the Idaho wilderness all at the same time is guaranteed to cause problems. BCP pilots can identify the problems and mitigate them, or they can leave that task to others. You can complain about ecofreaks and tree huggers, but there are quite a few local pilots around here that absolutely *HATE* the 180, supercub, and BCP fly-ins.

This is already boiled over by a few forgettable snarly folks who can't wake up right without tilting at whiskey bottles and windmills. To me, 'bagging' is probably the wrong word (although I've used it). I couldn't care less what strips people want to go into- I've been into most of them, have several favorites for the flying, backpacking, fishing, and scenery of the areas around them, and am glad there are a lot more strips to spread out the traffic- something for everyone. I do care about maintaining access to them, and simply put, that open access will continue as long as things don't get crazy.

It's puzzling that a few simple things that reduce impacts for other users are so offensive for some. Most folks already do them out of common sense. The other few...well, it's just not helpful to make up conspiracies and slight our public and private partners who care about or manage the area.

I'm certain after hearing from several people lately over this issue that advocacy, common sense, and respect will ensure an enduring future for aviation access and safety.

The few folks who don't get it will simply have to be ...endured. There are forgettable fruit loops in every user group; they don't matter as long as common sense prevails, and it usually does.

As we speak, there are a lot of us enjoying the backcountry strips in a variety of ways. Some prefer the JC thing in recent years, but most others don't know of or enjoy that scene. This includes a large group of scouts dropped off by plane convoy up north that will get picked up in Cabin Creek (generating some kindred aviation addicts in the process, and something that couldn't be done without aviation in the backcountry), a group of families making a circuit from either Shearer or Moose to Cavanaugh, and other folks whose boot pounding trail miles might be well behind them, but can still enjoy just dropping in their PA-XX's and and enjoying our backcountry heritage.

I'm up for a few weeks. I'll probably run into a few folks while I'm around. Feel free to say hi.

Might be worth noting that some places (Olympic National Park & Nat'l Forest) restrict horse groups to X number of animals-- maybe it infringes on their rights but a whole herd of horses on the trail & around camp sites can sure negatively impact everyone else. Not saying it's right but it wouldn't be too surprising to see some sort of limit put in place at some of the smaller airstrips. That'd be better than just flat-ass closing the strip anyway.

M6RV6 wrote:

66skylane wrote:
On another note I happen to fly and socialize with Super-Maule (James) regularly and many of you have completely mis-judged his character and the intentions of his posts. James is one of our biggest allies in protecting back country flying and trying to keep people safe in airplanes. He is a great assest to aviation and we need to be glad there are people like him "on the inside" and actually working for us and trying to protect our flying freedoms. Let's drop the pathetic personnal attacks and start to act like grown ups and re-establish some maturity on this site.


Yes. Thank you.

Just a note and my $.02
I have been fortunate to have in my career to have landed in some very remote and unreal places.
I am building a Glastar and a M4 Frankin plane to go see some more!
I am not a crowd type person!
Have been to the JC BCP gathering twice, once in an ugly M6 and the other time in a RV6.
I also have worked with SuperMaule, in fact when my Dad passed away we were looking at his old pictures and I jumped on the Internet and looked up all the old N#'s of his planes, Guess what SuperMaule's plane My Dad bought new and picked up from BD, even stayed at BD's house for a couple of days!
I'm glad people like to get together and share, just tome so much.
Please don't kick James to hard, You have not been in his shoes!
He has been to alot of wrecks to help determine what happened, He also has seen alot of body parts still in there!
I am about as big a outlaw as there is out here and I still get along and have great respect for James!
He has been on a check ride with me, have worked with him, and I am proud to call him a friend, even with where he works and what he does!! I am very glad he does work there as he is far above many who do!!!!
He is an honest man who does his Job, loves the backcountry, flying, recreating, hunting and fishing, family, and the USA.
Look in the mirror, look out through the window before you start throwing rocks?
Lets all pull on our BIG Boy Pants and act like adults!! Even I can do that most of the time.
We all live in the Great USA! Let's work at keeping it great and all the rest of this will workits self out.
Like all of you, Ihope to still be able to go take a look at those strips I have not been into.
And yes, there are people out ther who can't stand us!! That's life
Happy to be alive, well enough to fly, and fortunate enough to have a bird to fly in!
GT

George,

You are top knotch and this post shows it.

I also have the pleasure of knowing James. Alot of this seems to be caused by people taking his comments too personal. I just want to add my two cents that James is someone that most would greatly respect if they had a chance to get to know him, even if you disagree. He is someone you could have a mature debate with, too bad this has degraded so much. These situations are why I don't contribute much, tough crowd for sure.

Perhaps the problems caused by too many airplanes irritating hikers and Forest Service employees can be mitigated to a reasonable extent?

As much as i love airplanes, I have to say that it pisses me off when a guy in a 185 takes off from a fly-in early in the morning with the prop lever all the way forward, and rattles my tent and everyone's eardrums for miles around. This is every bit as irresponsible and short-sighted as the Harley riders shouting "loud and proud!" while they piss off everyone in the neighborhood. There are VERY FEW instances where you need to be running prop tips sonic. (If ever... all that noise costs energy, which is no longer available for thrust... anyone ever think about that?)

So if an average aviation-neutral everyday American citizen type of person was hiking in the wilderness, and enjoying the solitude, and someone's supersonic prop tips or short exhaust stacks rattled the crap out of his nice quiet moment, I can see how they might call and complain to whoever.

What it boils down to, in MOST cases, is that if our airplanes make less noise, people like airplanes more. So if we're all out there "bagging" strips by the dozen, but we're not offending anyone's eardrums... the problem becomes minimal.

I'm absolutely sure some of the neurosurgeons on this board will brand me as a Kalifornia psyko-eco-wacko for this... but if we made our airplanes quieter a LOT of GA's problems would go away... from back country hikers trying to close remote strips to city neighbors trying to close down a municipal airport.