Faced with spending hours upgrading what we have here, I have decided to rebuild the site from scratch using different tools. The main issues/features I would like to fix are:

1. Use better login session handling. The tool I used to manage login sessions is poor and causes no small amount of heartache.
2. Change to a new forum software. PhpBB3 is starting to feel aged, just like me. There are better options out there but no slam dunks.
3. Likes
4. Improve mobile experience for phones/tablets
5. Improve performance/speed.
6. Better solution for photo posting that makes it easier for those who struggle with doing it like a boss (but also to make bulk posting easier without endless cut and pasting of URLs.)
7. Possibly use two-factor or mobile-device authentication (tap button on your phone or mobile device to login instead of remembering username/password)

Some cons:

- This is the worst time in my life to do this. I am busier than ever as a new dad and trying to build my airplane.
- Migration of data like your activity in your profiles and your photo galleries might not be possible. The photos would remain visible in forum posts but you wouldn't be able to manage them anymore. The site would be an entirely new experience. The forum data should be preserved though.
- To be honest, I'm tired of managing a community. I just want to make movies and publish articles and sometimes participate. But I know the community part is 99% the reason you're all here, and this upgrade would be about improving that aspect.

Thoughts?

Sounds like a horrendous and daunting task that could drive one to madness. It's hard to believe for the many years that forums have been around there isn't a packaged turn-key product out there that "slam dunks"

One day, some bright long skinny fingered slouching code spewing tech geek is going to recognize this failure as an opportunity and build a product that could turn 3rd stage morons into a forum building titans. He will then sell his company to Facebook for 4 billion and ride around in a private 380 full of bikini bimbos and a giant hot tub . Who's going to beat him to the punch?

Zzzz-

Well, whatever you think is right and makes your life easier. I really appreciate what you have created and all the work it took to get it here!

Good on ya,
gunny

What Gunny said... I know I'm in the vast majority when I say I appreciate what you do Z.

I would also say that this sort of thing takes huge time and $$ to accomplish. I know he's not shilling, but if you are reading this and haven't donated to BCP, it's time to scroll down to the bottom and show your support by donating. If you find yourself checking in here weekly, daily, or even hourly and haven't donated in the past 12 months, today is the day... Even if you just lurk.

Thanks Zane! Whatever you decide we are grateful.

Z -

Everyone here really appreciates the effort you put into this forum. My only comment is to not use the phone code verification business because I spend summers where there is no phone service, so would be unable to log in for months if a phone is required.

Greg

Zane,
Thanks for all you do. I know how hard it must be with the family and with other projects that are important to you.

My first thought is that it's pretty good as it is already. How much time is it going to take to make it marginally better? How much time is it going to save you by making the changes? My concern is that it would cost you 200+ hours of time and only save you five minutes a day or worse. My next concern would be that the learning curve for the community to adopt the new changes might result in members leaving. How many members left when you changed to this format?
I did notice the lack of ability to "like" a post, but found it to be no big deal. If you really like something, you can post a reply and like it more "verbosely".
I don't think the mobile issue is that big a deal. I use tapatalk on my phone and it works just fine. Making the site work better on phones might be nice, but is not necessary IMO.
Speed could be better, but it hasn't been any real problem. Sometimes the first post of a subject comes up and you have to wait a few seconds for the rest to load which can be a bit frustrating, but again not a show stopper IMO. Faster than many other sites.
I hadn't noticed any issues with the login session handling.

My advice would be to spend your time with your family and your airplane Zane. There is that saying, "If it ain't broke..." and I would say that it really ain't broke, I suspect you are being a bit fussy. Save that for your airplane, you'll want everything perfect there. In the mean time, I for one am happy to participate in this community "as is".

Andy

I agree with Andy (and others). Yes, there are potential improvements as you aptly point out. But, at what expense in terms of your time? The overall forum, IMHO, works well as-is. Yes, photo issues are the biggest "pain" but even that is manageable. When you have the time--do the upgrade. But perhaps now isn't the time?

Zane, I have no complaint with the functionality. Of course, I have no idea how much work it's taking to maintain this level of functionality.

If you decide to proceed, please share a budget so we can ensure that your costs are covered. Also, can the conversion be contracted out to save you the labour? We should understand this cost. Whether you choose to contract it out or do it yourself, it should be funded by us.

I've only made a donation once, but it's time for me to help out again. Just deciding how much I should send.

Zman, Thanks for all you do. I can't imagine running a forum and I have always wondered how long you'd be able to keeping doing it. If there is a solution that would require minimal janitorial tasks then do that. I really enjoy your videos and articles so I'd enjoy seeing more of them but what I'd really like to see is more progress on your Bearhawk[emoji3] so we can eventually see videos and articles of your BH adventures.

Zane, from a new guy perspective;

1. forums are great, but (with any) there tends to be a point of critical mass that everyone just refers everyone else to previous posts on "the" subject. Don't get me wrong, I do understand this concept & why searching and reading is the best first step rather than seeing the same "which everyday dohicky is the best" every time you log on.
2. I dig the production stuff, articles, and videos. Heck, it makes me WANT to contribute, but i know nothing on the subject matter.
3. I love the videos and pictures that everyone shares about trip reports and different things.
4. With heads up, people can save out their pictures on their profile before implementation
5. I don't really care about my activity log. Maybe with a few hundred posts it's handy, but probably searchable anyway.

So, with all that said. I'd rather see something different and still have the site than not change & it slowly gets more difficult to use because you don't have time, resource, or energy to put in the maintenance. Find something that will let the "computer" do most of the work and recruit some help from some others to help manage the community aspect of it. Enjoy your family and your flying interests.

Z:

First, thanks for you work and effort! You have done a great job and I know I speak for many when I say thanks!!

Second, kiddos and family come first. If you are having to pull time from them or work, don't!!! Take care of job and family first. While I am not the power user that others are, I do enjoy this site and it seems more than adequate to me. I sure wouldn't be taking time away from a new kid or a new mom (which is a big thankless job) to make the site marginally better.

Finally (and this is just the business man in me), I would strongly urge you to consider finding a way to make this website pay for itself. Don't know much about the demographics of this site, but would think with all of the activity you are getting there would be a way to monetize that. Would be more than glad to pay a fee every year for access and I can't imagine that most on this site wouldn't. You probably couldn't quit your day job, but you could probably make enough to go hire some help and take some of the load off.

Again, thanks for all you do!!! But take it from someone that has raised four. It goes by in an eye blink and you don't want to miss it.

Blessings!! L

Do whatever you think is best, Z. Personally I think the site works just fine. A better search function is the only thing of value I can think of adding. Some of that would be unnecessary if people worked a little harder to post in the correct category and maybe label their posts more clearly.

As for pictures...

I dislike computers and never learned to use one effectively. And even I find it SIMPLE to add and use photographs. Of course I did pry six minutes out of an evening and watch your tutorial video on the subject.

Making it easier to add pictures may or may not be a good idea. I mean...if it's not worth someone's efforts to post it with the current system, is it really a contribution to the site? I don't mean that as snobbery in any way. But pictures and videos are just like words...some of them add a little, some a lot, and some of them are just wasted bandwidth that slows everything down.

I LOVE seeing other peoples pictures and I care a lot more about the subject matter than any artistic qualities, but I don't want to see a hundred pictures from last weekend...I want to see two or three of the hundred. Frankly, if someone doesn't care enough about their images to spend a couple minutes learning how to post them, they probably don't care enough to edit them, either. A large dump of unedited photos is not going to improve the site in my mind.

As for the rest... I'm probably in the minority, but I couldn't care less how the site works on mobile devices. My phone has buttons, a fifteen minute battery life, and I rarely even know where it is. When I'm out and about I'm out and about. Internet stuff is for when I'm at home, between chores.

FWIW The method of putting photos into posts that they have over on homebuiltairplanes.com works really well from my dimwitted perspective. It allows me to paste in a URL web link for a photo, and the photo just shows up in the post. No Photobucket, no third party file hosting, no muss, no fuss. It also equally allows me to search my computer and upload the photos, using the same interface.

My opinion is that the photo/video embedding function that is available on HBA is a slam dunk and is in fact idiot-proof enough for me to use.

Just adding to the kudos and the advice re: kiddos.

I know so little about what it takes to operate and maintain any site that I don't know what's better or worse, just that I'm on several forums which are all different, and my ignorance of how they work and that they're all different hasn't adversely affected whether I stay or go. This forum is excellent, with some excellent regulars and irregulars whose participation I personally value. If you see a need to change it, that's your decision, but don't do it because of us, do it because it will make your life easier, if that can be done without losing what makes the site so attractive.

On the kiddos, I look at my grandkiddies and realize how much better their father, my son, is than I was as a daddy. His relationship with his kids is a model, perhaps not quite perfect, but truly outstanding. I spent way too much time, being involved in this or that community activity while building my law practice, and it really cost me--and them. For much of my kids' growing up years, I wasn't there for them--I was "too busy". That wasn't good for them or me. It led to some real disaffection between them and me. I'm so blessed that those gulfs have been breached, but it took many years, years that could have been much better spent in daddy/kiddo activities. So don't let your concern for this site or any other job, whether it's a paying job or a volunteer job, get in the way of your relationships with your family--it's just not worth it, and conversely, those relationships are worth every bit of your efforts.

Cary

Z,
Site is fine, but you have to decide if it is worth your time to keep maintaining it in this state.

It is a great community and that is a testament to the effort you've put in.

I've figured out how to paste photos. It might be a good thing it isn't too easy.

I don't resent the search function, often a google search turns up a thread on BCP so that is my primary search tool anyway. Besides, I find folks are often pretty willing to discuss the same topic over and over again anyway. Maule guys want to talk Maule, Cessna guys want to talk Cessna. If we didn't re-hash old topics ad naseum we'd run out of stuff to talk about.

On Cary's point of child raising, I couldn't agree more. Time invested is a huge determinant of the relationship you'll have with your kids later in life.

I'll follow whatever you decide to do.

Zane, I think you mentioned once that this is an interesting psychological experiment. I get that. I also imagine it can be an exhausting one.
Building a healthy adult (parenting/stewarding) is a very time consuming task. Building an aircraft is that too. This experiment can chill for a while and there is no foul in that. The solid community will remain that, if the fringes get frayed, that's life.
As one who is definitely on the back side of the pic posting power curve, I actually agree that easier might not be better. It depends on how much storage is available i guess.
The bottom line from my perspective is, this is your baby and ultimately we are here simply because, you built it and we came. You don't owe anybody anything.
And FWIW, I suspect that if there is a decrease in traffic here, it has more to do with our penchant for posting our seemingly endless judgements than any lack of anything with the site.
At the end of the day, this has been the one single site that I have visited every single day that I had net access available (rarely log in but always scan). For providing the venue and for all of the work you have done and for the force of your personality that pervades here, I thank you profusely.
Them's my thoughts brother, the sum of which is, thank you, do whatever pleases you, there will be no complaints from me no matter what the outcome.
Chris

Zzz,

Do whatever you need to do, and (I'm not a programmer) if I can help at all please let me know. This is a wonderful place and I understand the need to stay ahead of the curve. You've made a bunch of great decisions up to this point which is what built this place and attracted the people that made it into the great community it is today.

EZFlap wrote:FWIW The method of putting photos into posts that they have over on homebuiltairplanes.com works really well from my dimwitted perspective. It allows me to paste in a URL web link for a photo, and the photo just shows up in the post. No Photobucket, no third party file hosting, no muss, no fuss. It also equally allows me to search my computer and upload the photos, using the same interface.

My opinion is that the photo/video embedding function that is available on HBA is a slam dunk and is in fact idiot-proof enough for me to use.

I'm probably misunderstanding you, but you're describing a third party hosting if you're entering a URL to link a photo.

Thank you all. If/when I pursue the project I will likely have a beta version for people to play with to help find bugs and issues.

Yes, I would much rather just work on the Bearhawk, but the site does make a little money. Costs are mostly covered for what we do now and there is a little left over to buy aluminum to replace the piece I just screwed up! I look forward to the day when there's budget to visit more of you and make films.

Because I can no longer fly by myself, I appreciate the site very much. Discussing techniques with the many pilots on the site and flying with as many as possible is of great value to me. Thanks Zane.

Zzz wrote:Thank you all. If/when I pursue the project I will likely have a beta version for people to play with to help find bugs and issues.

Yes, I would much rather just work on the Bearhawk, but the site does make a little money. Costs are mostly covered for what we do now and there is a little left over to buy aluminum to replace the piece I just screwed up! I look forward to the day when there's budget to visit more of you and make films.

Hi Zane:

Make it a paid forum. If someone can afford an airplane they can afford $5 or $10 bucks a month to pay for the forum. That's 2 latte's at Starbucks a month, I know enough people who spent more then that in a day at Starbucks.


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