Nice, Evan! I liked the side-by-side takeoff view. Did Bob have close to full tanks or was he at partial fuel when you guys took off? I was pretty impressed with the climb out in the Patrol seeing it like that - especially after thinking back on your departures out of Garden Valley last year. Your Savage seemed to get up and go pretty well!

whee wrote:I enjoyed that. Thanks!

What's the deal with the glass panel Patrol? Thought Bob was allergic to electricity.

Thanks Whee. He is very allergic. That Airplane is another builders. Bob has it there to do some work to it I guess.

I appreciate the idea of keeping things light and simple. But with the radios being so lightweight these days, I don't really think that anyone has an excuse to fly without one. Of course, one would have to know how to use it first.

If I were building an airplane, I would not skimp on the interior being that this is where all my time will be spent. I don't mean clutter and a bunch of junk, I mean lean, clean, and classy. I think there is a place for comprimise. I am guilty of hauling a bunch of shit around with me as it is, so I would have to be careful while choosing interior items and keeping it lightweight. I always overpack and I am also a little too redundant at times.

My argument for the Garmin AND iPad is simple, other than the redundancy. The Garmin has Sat radio and weather. The iPad with foreflight has radar also. I like having two separate sources of info. For instance on this trip, While at lower altitiudes I was able to get the radar on ipad, while the XM weather was not showing any radar returns on my route of flight. I flew across the country and back using this system and it works well for me when Im going somewhere.

CapnMike wrote:Nice, Evan! I liked the side-by-side takeoff view. Did Bob have close to full tanks or was he at partial fuel when you guys took off? I was pretty impressed with the climb out in the Patrol seeing it like that - especially after thinking back on your departures out of Garden Valley last year. Your Savage seemed to get up and go pretty well!

Thanks Mike. I believe we had half fuel in the Patrol. The Savage is awesome when it's light. It's downfall is when loaded up and its over 80 degrees (like every other airplane out there!). One issue that the Savage has is cooling. It is necassary to keep the airspeed up while climbing to prevent rising cylinder head temps. After the extended gear and big bushwheels airspeed/more drag has become and issue. But after some work, I have got the cooling under control.

When I was leaving Idaho last year, I was flying with Tyler (aka Chosstronaut) out of the Flying B with all my gear and full fuel. It was mid morning when we departed the ranch. That was the scariest moment of that trip. Read: Cylinder head temps in the yellow, Rising DA, and a 5000 ft climb to clear the ridge. The guys in the Maules and even Tyler loaded up had no issues. I made it of course, but it was a reality check. That right there had me wanting more horsepower.

The Savage is a great airplane for 90% of the flying that I am going right now. But my plans have me wanting to be able to venture out further and faster, while still playing with the boys locally.

Some more pics from the trip to Virginia:

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Wonderful video.

How did you feel about the top and bottom speeds? I agree with you on comforts, build the plane to suit your mission.

I have a friend building a Patrol, I can't wait to see it in action.

mountainmatt wrote:Wonderful video.

How did you feel about the top and bottom speeds? I agree with you on comforts, build the plane to suit your mission.

I have a friend building a Patrol, I can't wait to see it in action.

As soon as we leveled off after climb we were doing 120mph no problem. He said cruise is 19" MP (Not sure RPM) 130 mph with the 8.00's. He said prob 4 mph penalty for 29" AKB's.

It flies slow. There is still aileron authority in a stall. With no power, the stall is straightforward. With a bit of power it just mushes in a decent still controllable, however. To putt around at 100 mph almost feels like sacrelidge. The engine feels like its just idling. This thing wants to go fast. I flew the approach in to the strip before Bob took over. I had no flaps in and it was tough to get slowed down.

Montana Eagle seems similar...

project one at

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1022491_Montana+Coyote%2C+Mountain+Eagle.html


Montana Coyote Inc Mountain Eagle



A 1994 two-seat cabin monoplane, revision of the 1991 Montana Coyote design.

Engine: Lycoming O-320, 150 hp
Height: 6 ft
Length: 25 ft
Wing span: 37 ft
Wing area: 137 sq.ft
Weight empty: 1100 lbs
Gross: 2000 lbs
Fuel cap: 40 USG
Speed max: 125 mph
Cruise: 105 mph
Range: 450 sm
Stall: 35 mph
ROC: 1250 fpm
Take-off dist: 350 ft
Landing dist: 300 ft
Service ceiling: 15,000 ft
Seats: 2
Landing gear: tail wheel

.................

One thing that is important in deciding on any kit is the health and activity level of the community, and the Bearhawk community is very healthy.

I hate to admit it, but the documentation for the quickbuild, and the plans themselves, are pretty spartan for a beginner builder like me. Compared to the Rans and Vans manuals they're minimal.

Luckily there are really helpful and skilled guys who've already done it or are also working on any given task. I've expanded my personal fabrication skill set immensely out of necessity.

Anyway, I'm getting off point. The point I wanted to make was that for support and resale value, a well known model in the experimental world is a solid choice. Even though it's a homebuilt, the final product is worth more when the community is stronger. Think about those guys that bought Ridge Runner kits...

I've looked at a Patrol at Goldberg's in TX a couple years ago, but not flown one. Any thoughts or real-world numbers on the real cost of building one? The old kitplanes article suggests one might do it for ~$90k (as always +/- depending on scrounging ability, new vs. used engine etc.).

Greg

I'd like to piggy back on this thread, and add that anybody with first hand experience with the Patrol LSA chime in. Like the Patrol, it seems to have some pretty good numbers re: stall and top speed. Some of that, most probably, is that clean single strut wing.

That gear is OK, and for sure less drag then Cub style, but.....for the really rough stuff, I like the way a cabaned (?) Cub style gear spreads the stress around the fuselage. That's some of why a T-Craft is faster then a Cub, less gear drag.

I've toyed with "bushing out" a Patrol LSA for my next build, and Cub style gear would be at the top of my list, along with a BigBored Rotax (sorry Bob, it'd kick butt on the little Continental), The single lift strut would really complicate carrying external loads though, seriously, I'd hate to give up that ability!

The only downside to the LSA is no flaps.

I had the conversation about external loads on the strut with a friend who is building a Patrol near me. I think I would build a cargo pod. Everything I have read about them is there is virtually no speed penalty and you can put anything in them that you would put on the strut of a super cub.

Another thing about the pod, I think mounting may be easier on the "Seaplane Version" of the Patrol due to the float fittings. The Seaplane Patrol has doors on both sides too. I think that would be a nice option and help resale value as well.

I swiped this pic from the Bearhawk builders forum. It's a Patrol in Alaska on 35's. He goes by AKPatrol on the Bearhawk Forum.



AKPatrol, you out there? Im curious to hear your thoughts on the Catto fixed pitched performance.

A guy in Sandpoint is about halfway through a LSA build, sort of. He is putting so many mods in Bob has told him he is on his own. Flaps and an 0-320, it will be a pretty heavy LSA but I guess still an LSA.

Evan,
I've carried things that I couldn't fit in a belly pod, occasionally, sure but it is a handy feature when the need arises. Losing the ability would be no big deal, and maybe a belly mounted lumber rack would suffice. A quickly removable one of course. I also have heard that about belly pods, they seem to be in some aero black hole and don't hurt performance AND many claim BETTER performance with one!

Nice video. I have been building a Patrol forever. I'm scratch building as I have the tools and shop to do it in and I'm a cheap bastard. If you like to weld and fabricate(I do ) then any of Bob's designs are for you. If I had it to do over again I would buy the kit. Bob's fall BBQ get together is a nice time, I like his place. Simple like his airplanes.

courierguy wrote:A guy in Sandpoint is about halfway through a LSA build, sort of. He is putting so many mods in Bob has told him he is on his own. Flaps and an 0-320, it will be a pretty heavy LSA but I guess still an LSA.

I really like the simplicity of the BH LSA design. Seems like it does pretty well without flaps:

Just from observing the build thread on the LSA in sandpoint, that is nothing like a Bearhawk anymore.

A Patrol with a lighter weight O-320, a fixed pitch prop, and minimal equipment could be a candidate for EAB LSA.