Backcountry Pilot • Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

FWIW, and not sure how accurate it is, but the article does say that the pilot did not radio the airport on approach...
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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

I never check notams, never. I know I'm wrong!!!!BFD. But WTF I've never hit a snow plow. I have showed up at a few airports with the big X. I go away.

We won't talk about the fire TFR[emoji87][emoji85][emoji86]
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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

A little jet insight, in general.

- Straight ins are common but they can, and should join the pattern when prudent. We do this quite often on visual approaches, especially in the Caribbean.

- While ATC might ask if you have a Notam, it's not their responsibility, IFR or VFR, makes no difference.

- While jets are fast, they typically also have a lot more performance and even a late go around should be doable. We regularly practice go arounds from in the flare for "vehicle on the runway".

- From what Cary said, visibility was more than adequate. We routinely watch vehicles and aircraft crossing or rolling out on our landing runway, all times of day in all lighting, from 5-10 miles out and have no problem seeing them and assuring that the landing surface is clear. Closure rate to the runway, I'd say, isn't a factor. Especially for anyone that has any experience in them. Your brain gets used to it and it is the norm.

- I admit that prior to Foreflight and flying for a living, I wasn't as diligent about checking notams. In my opinion, I think it's something that is so easy to do now (assuming you have Internet access) that there isn't much excuse not to do it, especially if you're getting paid to carry paying passengers. On occasion (probably not as often as I should) I've called FSS when destinations have changed or I'm coming out of the backcountry to get Notams. Especially during the fire season to make sure a TFR didn't pop up in the last few days.

There is the Swiss cheese model that our training department uses a lot. The thought being that you want to add as many pieces of cheese as you can to mitigate or trap errors. The idea being that you don't want the holes to line up, which represents the clear path to an accident or incident. By adding as many pieces of cheese as you can, you decrease the chance that any holes line up. Pieces of cheese are things like communicating, checking notams, active monitoring, asking questions, following SOPs, using checklists....you get the idea. Unfortunately, some pieces of cheese where missing here. Luckily, no one got hurt. Hopefully it will be another morsel that we can file away to make all of our flying a little more safer.
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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

OregonMaule wrote:I never check notams, never. I know I'm wrong!!!!BFD. But WTF I've never hit a snow plow. I have showed up at a few airports with the big X. I go away.

We won't talk about the fire TFR[emoji87][emoji85][emoji86]

I used to be like that. Then I flew through a restricted fire fighting zone this summer. Now I call and check...
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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

No radio call, very unusual, I think he was trying to sneak in contraband.
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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

A1Skinner wrote:
OregonMaule wrote:I never check notams, never. I know I'm wrong!!!!BFD. But WTF I've never hit a snow plow. I have showed up at a few airports with the big X. I go away.

We won't talk about the fire TFR[emoji87][emoji85][emoji86]

I used to be like that. Then I flew through a restricted fire fighting zone this summer. Now I call and check...


I guess I better clarify. I look at TFRs. I run foreflight. I listen to AWOS to.
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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

OregonMaule wrote:
A1Skinner wrote:
OregonMaule wrote:I never check notams, never. I know I'm wrong!!!!BFD. But WTF I've never hit a snow plow. I have showed up at a few airports with the big X. I go away.

We won't talk about the fire TFR[emoji87][emoji85][emoji86]

I used to be like that. Then I flew through a restricted fire fighting zone this summer. Now I call and check...


I guess I better clarify. I look at TFRs. I run foreflight. I listen to AWOS to.

I listen to AWOS as well. I wish TFRs were plotted in Canada like they are down there. Someone was telling me that they might be on foreflight. Can anyone confirm that?
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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

Here's a 'what if scenario' if I could play devil's advocate. They depart their Mexican airport and clear customs in El Paso. He may have checked notams before leaving Mexico and not seen any for Telluride. Between the time he leaves Mexico and the time he arrives in KTEX more than a few hours have passed by.
In the mean time the airport ops decide to close the runway and plow snow. The notam goes out but the crew have no means of picking it up while airborne other than radio to FSS which most corporate jets crews wouldn't do.
The weather is ok but not great and it's an unfamiliar airport in mountainous terrain. He sees the runway but not the plow. When he sees the plow he realizes it too late and chooses to land rather than go around and probably end up back in the clouds well passed the missed approach point, which is about a mile prior to the threshold, and they are way below the MDA.
It could be as simple as thinking he could get stopped before the plow rather than risk the go around.
Who knows.
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Re: Biz jet vs plow - Telluride

Rezrider wrote:Here's a 'what if scenario' if I could play devil's advocate. They depart their Mexican airport and clear customs in El Paso. He may have checked notams before leaving Mexico and not seen any for Telluride. Between the time he leaves Mexico and the time he arrives in KTEX more than a few hours have passed by.
In the mean time the airport ops decide to close the runway and plow snow. The notam goes out but the crew have no means of picking it up while airborne other than radio to FSS which most corporate jets crews wouldn't do.
The weather is ok but not great and it's an unfamiliar airport in mountainous terrain. He sees the runway but not the plow. When he sees the plow he realizes it too late and chooses to land rather than go around and probably end up back in the clouds well passed the missed approach point, which is about a mile prior to the threshold, and they are way below the MDA.
It could be as simple as thinking he could get stopped before the plow rather than risk the go around.
Who knows.


Plausible. Especially considering that decision height is 2300 feet. One might not see the snowplow from that far out.
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