Recently I complained about missing out on a really good deal on a CH701 partially finished kit. Well, as luck would have it the other buyer backed out for a variety of reasons and I came up number 1 on the backup buyer list. I just wired the seller his asking price. He also has located a trailer that he will load the kit on so that I can pull into town hook it up and head home. We'll have the use of his hangar apartment while in there. So anyway, sometime next week we'll be driving to (near) Dallas to pick up our new project. The barnstormers ad tells pretty much everything we know so far except I have a raft of pictures from the seller.


Ad; http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_ ... 1+Kit.html

Pictures; http://tinypic.com/a/2rwxw/2

I saw my first EAA magazine back in about '62. I've been wanting to build one ever sense and started two but the time was never right. Moving all over the country, running out of money, being in love with women I couldn't stand; that sort of thing. I believe this is the one. It's far enough along that I'm hoping I don't get confused on the way to the garage to work on it every day.

Here's a good write up on the '701
http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/flying.htm
Pete

There are a few known good mods to the 701, whether they came by way of the Savannah or by 701 builders.

Find a guy named John Bolding in Texas. He has the info on the Heintz-approved wing extension. That will increase area and aspect ratio. This will make a noticeable difference.

Put in the X-brace and other stiffeners in the fuselage skins. Oil-canning was an enormous distraction on my one ride in a 701. Same with the half-ribs or rib stiffeners in the wing. These can all be very light, .016 thick metal, and I am very convinced they are worth the few ounces.

Pegazair makes a moveable slat upgrade for the 701. It is definitely extra work, but it probably is worthwhile in drag reduction (for fuel use, not speed).

Get rid of the stock flap control arrangement, it is awkward and you have no leverage. If you like electric flaps then there is a well-known bolt-in upgrade. If you want manual flaps then design a simpler overhead Johnson Bar lever like the latest Cub Crafters and British Auster use.

As much as I hate to say this, leave the nosewheel on the 701. Converting it to tailwheel is a big project you don't need right now. They do pretty well as-is, even though I would want a taildragger myself.

Get the bubble doors.

Weight is critical on these airplanes for the most part. If you can live with it, leave it unpainted and put on some vinyl graphics or something. Minimum interior too... Krylon or Zolatone instead of upholstery IMHO.

For goodness sakes, FORGET about the $10K avionics nonsense. A hand-held GPS or iPad style
gadget on a kneeboard will give you as much capability as a G-1000.

If you are planning on coming to the caveman fly-in you will likely meet a gentleman from Mack that finished his 701 last year.
He is a wealth of information on them and would be happy to give you a ride to get a feel for the plane.

Hey Pete: Yes indeed. I've got that one on my bookmarks bar. I even posted that here someplace as a must read for Zenith folks or those interested.

EZ; I've already got the info on the CH designed wing extension. That's planned at a minimum. The beanie mod has shown up in several designs depending on whether you want to retain the bubble windshield or or start with a flat sheet of poly. This fills in all or most of the "V" gap between the wings. There is a "divorce" between the elevator and the flaps that is recommended by everyone that has separated those controls. I need to study the drawings a bit more because I don't quite understand it. Finally everyone who has eliminated the upside down airfoil horizontal stabilizer considers it very well worth the effort. All of that stuff has been done by Savannah including a separate vertical stabilizer and rudder. All of those mods have been adopted by the new Zenith Cruiser too.

I want to make sure that I don't take a funky but capable design and turn it into a "normal" airplane. There is something though that makes these little bastards tail stall and drop in on the nose when flying close to the edge. About half the guys at Cloverdale have fixed the nose gear at least once. There are a whole lot of opinions out there as to why it does that, but the thing that impresses me is that most of the guys who spend the considerable time it takes to transition to the type, don't feel it needs to be modified to make it a fine airplane. They just increase their skills to match the "quirky" weird ass way the thing flys. It's a bit like the ol' hound dog walking down the street; it's hind legs kinda drift out to the side like they're trying to catch up with the front; and that's in level flight. When you mash on the rudder to make it straighten up there's no "feel" to it. No self centering. Luscombe engineers added adjustable centering springs to the rudder pedals on the 8 design in 1941 for the same reason. I may just hang some flat plate winglets to the ends of the horizontal stabilizer like a Beaver on floats. There is lots of discussion on this yaw stability on the Yahoogroups forum.

Most guys who don't like them prang the gear, then fix it and sell them right away. The guys who learn to fly them won't shut up about how good they are. But you already know that.

EB

S-12Flyer wrote:If you are planning on coming to the caveman fly-in you will likely meet a gentleman from Mack that finished his 701 last year.
He is a wealth of information on them and would be happy to give you a ride to get a feel for the plane.

Thanks Charlie but the Summer is full this year unfortunately. We're putting my mother into assisted care, going to Alaska, going to Texas the pickup the Zenith and getting the Luscombe ready to sell.

EB

Cool EB, look forward to watching your progress!

Tadpole wrote:Cool EB, look forward to watching your progress!

Ditto mister. I've been watching your progress so far. Somewhere out there in Central Kalifornia there's a Stinson wrecking yard where I'm certain you could get your firewall, struts and gear.

EB

The tail has always LOOKED a little small, and I can see how the elevator might stall at extreme deflection. I can also easily imagine the air stalling (separating) off of the upper leading edge of the stabilizer at high AoA, and causing all sorts of elevator control problems. The VG's on the bottom of the tail looks like a really good idea to me. The only guaranteed way to solve it would be an all-flying tail, but that makes you an airplane designer/engineer/test pilot you may not want to be.

If there is a way to extend the trailing edge out a short distance at the tips, so the stock metal "Hoerner" tip is angled outward instead of inward at the trailing edge, you should see a gain.

Congrats on your Zenith purchase.... .

I make a few mods for the 801 that transfer over to the 701,,,, like the "No Slot Flaperon" kit and gear spacers.....

Enjoy the build...

Emory Bored wrote:

S-12Flyer wrote:If you are planning on coming to the caveman fly-in you will likely meet a gentleman from Mack that finished his 701 last year.
He is a wealth of information on them and would be happy to give you a ride to get a feel for the plane.

Thanks Charlie but the Summer is full this year unfortunately. We're putting my mother into assisted care, going to Alaska, going to Texas the pickup the Zenith and getting the Luscombe ready to sell.

EB

Sorry to hear you won't be at Caveman. You still have a bit of work to do on the kit so maybe you'll get around these parts before it's done. Randy did an awesome job on his and I'm sure he will be glad to offer advice or help if you ask.
He's on this site and the Zenith site as well (701der).
What are you planning on hanging on the front?

Emory Bored wrote:

Tadpole wrote:Cool EB, look forward to watching your progress!

Ditto mister. I've been watching your progress so far. Somewhere out there in Central Kalifornia there's a Stinson wrecking yard where I'm certain you could get your firewall, struts and gear.

EB

That be Earl. I've yet to call for parts yet. Working on ordering up tubing, SS sheet, and aluminum now. Going to have a pro do the tubing replacements /repairs and I'm going to try to make my own firewall and boot cowls.

S-12Flyer wrote:

Emory Bored wrote:

S-12Flyer wrote:If you are planning on coming to the caveman fly-in you will likely meet a gentleman from Mack that finished his 701 last year.
He is a wealth of information on them and would be happy to give you a ride to get a feel for the plane.

Thanks Charlie but the Summer is full this year unfortunately. We're putting my mother into assisted care, going to Alaska, going to Texas the pickup the Zenith and getting the Luscombe ready to sell.

EB

Sorry to hear you won't be at Caveman. You still have a bit of work to do on the kit so maybe you'll get around these parts before it's done. Randy did an awesome job on his and I'm sure he will be glad to offer advice or help if you ask.
He's on this site and the Zenith site as well (701der).
What are you planning on hanging on the front?

The biggest and baddest I can afford. Probably a 912ULS but if I can swing it I'm going to see about a Bullyhawk turbo charged 912UL. They insist it's a part for part duplicate of the 914. I don't want to go into hock on this but I will if it's only $8K more. Especially since I'm not going to put any expensive panel stuff in there. If it don't pay, it don't ride. http://www.bullyhawk.com/

Congratulations on getting your new toy. I have ridden in a 701 before and was impressed with the airplane. I was originally interested in riding behind the Rotax 912 to see what it was like and it just happened to be on a 701. By the time we got around the patch I was paying more attention to the airplane. The one I rode in was bare bones and I didn't fly it enough to form an opinion about the tail, slats or some of the other parts that have had "improvement". I think if I had one probably 99% of the time I would be flying solo but as posted get the bubble doors. Man those 912's are expensive.

Congrats, EB!

After riding around in a friends Savannah recently, I think you'll be pretty happy with the performance. They don't carry a lot but boy they get off the ground fast and land short. I think you'll find it a to be a great and fun little airplane. Just keep it light on the build as much as possible.

I seriously doubt you'd be disappointed with the 912ULS and the 914 will add weight... you're research may say differently.

Yeah the Rotax isn't cheap, but I noticed the other day that the hangar floor below where the plane has been parked for the last 7 years and 1200 hrs of flying is PRISTINE, well at least as pristine as the rest of the floor. No oil leaks is my point.

IF I had to do it over, I would go for the BullyDog setup on the 80 horse/912 engine, though I am real happy with my 912S/100 horse. The 80 horse Rotax can be had for a bit less expense I'm told, most want the 100. But even at 80 horse non turboed you'll do fine, Sparks isn't that high.

Speaking of keeping it light, the Belite line of instruments are all over that, I'm with EZ on that whole super wazoo panel thing, heavy and expensive and not needed on birds like yours or mine, my next would be even simpler then my already basic one. Just don't take my GPS away!

I just e-mailed Belite and asked them what happened to the numbers.




<edit> I called Bullyhawk. They don't want anything to do with putting a 914 on a CH701. Weird eh? They say it's too big. Good folks there.

EB

That's an interesting looking instrument, but I have a question if anyone knows the answer. Is their "inclinometer" just a slip-skid ball, or does it provide a gyro horizon ?

Emory Bored wrote:I just e-mailed Belite and asked them what happened to the numbers.




<edit> I called Bullyhawk. They don't want anything to do with putting a 914 on a CH701. Weird eh? They say it's too big. Good folks there.

EB

There is a 701 with a 914 at a private strip close to me. The thing is an elevator. They hang 0-200s and 3300s on the 701's and they are way heavier than a 914. Horsepower is your best friend on high DA days in the backcountry.

Check out this turbo prop on a 701.
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/pic1 ... llage1.jpg

EZFlap wrote:That's an interesting looking instrument, but I have a question if anyone knows the answer. Is their "inclinometer" just a slip-skid ball, or does it provide a gyro horizon ?

Here's a mock up. NOT FIRMED UP, JUST AN IDEA, THIS THING IS IN DEVELOPMENT!!! There is a description of the electronic gyro on their website http://beliteaircraftstore.com/avionics.html



EB