I have been dreaming of having my own plane, most of my life. I have been flying hang gliders and paragliders for years and have decided it is time to add powered flight. I know I want a taildragger, I am currently shopping for a lot to build our new home one that will allow me to keep my plane at home and I don't even have my license yet, lol. I found a plane that I want. I would be interested to hear opinions for and against getting a Carbon Cub as a first plane. I have gravitated to the idea of "buy your last plane first." Looking for tailwheel instruction now.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Cheers,
Lostgriz

If you have money to build a new home and buy a carbon cub, you certainly have $20,000 to get a mechanical sound Champ or Taylorcraft or an old Cub. Why not the new, high powered, slick one?

First, high quality tw instructors know you will learn better and faster by manipulating the controls rather than watching him manipulate the controls. Neither he nor you want to ding the slick, new one. You need to actually experience fairly slow, non-damaging ground loop. With an expensive airplane it won't be fast enough to make an impression. He will ride the controls too much for you to learn fast and well.

Second, you will never learn energy management in an airplane that will almost hover out of ground effect. So later, when at high DA and too heavy, even your Carbon Cub will want to find a hole to gain zoom reserve and you will think something is wrong with the engine.

Get something with a small Continental 65hp, 85 or 90 is OK, and learn to fly the wing on a good little airplane first, the way you have been flying your hang glider. When it's time to move up, you won't want to trade and not have to find good air the way you have been. That is part of the fun of it.

I think learning to fly in a tailwheel airplane is a great idea, but not in a carbon cub. I can't even imagine what the hull insurance would be for student pilot. I agree with contact flying - get a Champ, Luscombe, C120/140, or Pacer. You can buy one for the cost of a few years of insurance premiums on a carbon cub. You can self insure the hull and carry a liability only policy for the years you building time and gaining experience. If you have an unlimited budget you will need to worry about protecting your assets with a high liability policy aka 1-2 million smooth coverage. These policies are difficult to obtain even for high time pilots and are also super expensive. Unless you have unlimited budget - a nice trainer makes more sense economically. I also agree with contact about having a plane you can bang around in the pattern and not worry about beating up. I also think it's a good idea to fly a lot of different birds and define you mission.

Heck, you might accidentally find your last plane in that Champ, Luscombe, C120/140, or Pacer!

The Carbon Cub is indeed a cool aircraft. If money is not an issue it is a great performer with surprisingly good handling characteristics. Personally, I have not flown one, but have some friends that have and they where surprised how well it handled. Don't know if the price justifies the great personality of the aircraft, but there is another aspect. Insurance.

Learning to fly in it may not be possible, if you want to be insured. For one, it is not super repairable. Repairable yes, just not at a cheap price. One the buds I mentioned did ding his, nothing special and my jaw hit the table when I heard the repair bill. So the insurance carriers, all three or four of them remaining now, must know this as well. Heck, just tried to get one of my buddies last hour of float flying to get his check ride (the shcool's aircraft had a maintenance issue and will be down for some time). One of my other buds has a Huskey on floats, with the reversing prop, and has a CFI Seaplane and has an irrational amount of time in scores of aircraft (its his toy, he flies Citations). The student has boatloads of time as well (owns a Caravan). Answer, NO, HELL NO. So perhaps you should reach out to an insurer before you fork over any money on the Cub. The possibility of dinging a taildragger is quite high compared to nosedraggers, they keep track of that stuff.

Go get instruction is a Citrabria, Cub or the like in somebody else's aircraft that has insurance for instruction. Frankly, get it in anything and then transition to taildragger. It will go faster as a course, easier to find an examiner to do the check ride. Once you have that nice new ticket, go get some transition time in the Carbon Cub, like 25 hours with the company that makes them, or their designated check out dude. Then an insurer may touch you.

If you can afford it, the CC is an excellent aircraft to learn in. It's incredibly easy to fly and forgiving. I have taught several now in their own cub. Good luck!

AKT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also keep in mind Insurane. As a new pilot your gonna pay out the nose on the value with zero time. You will need a minimum of 25 hours dual but it's gonna take that long regardless.

AKT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Many pilots have learned on a Cub and if you are even considering or looking at Carbon Cubs I suspect funding the required "accessories" (insurance etc) isn't an issue for you, send a picture of your new toy once it's in the hanger and enjoy the adventure.

Are you in Austria? The insurance market is probably radically different from the US and Canada - it certainly is for everything else.

I think it would make a great first plane if that’s in the budget. And I wish I had learned on the plane I bought.

TacAero in Hood River, OR is set up to train pilots new to Carbon Cubs (I think the factory sends customers there).

I believe they start you out in an L-4

Good people. My brother got his tail wheel endorsement there.

If you started out as a HG pilot, (like me) you are one step ahead of those who start their flying in a gen av trainer. I'd say just jump right into the CC, and just keep in mind the throttle can be a problem solver only most of the time.

Thank you all for the feedback. I really appreciate the consideration. I am strongly considering the Carbon Cub, but I have also thought about the Taylor, J3 or Pacer..... Always appreciate the feedback. I will keep you posted. I do have a habit of going all in when I put my mind to it, sometimes it's good to pump the brakes a little, lol. Bought tickets for the wife and I to go to Valdez in the spring, lucky to have great support for my flying ambitions.

I can't think of an easier airplane to fly. People marvel at the things a pilot can do in them, but they really do just make it super easy. And it's really nothing special. It's the Cub formula with lots of weight savings, a souped up 340 cubic inch Lycoming, and some nice fit and finish. Can configure them LSA or 1865 LB max gross IIRC.

Insurance aside, starting in one will leave you without an appreciation for its favorable power-to-weight, and probably leave you with a compromised skillset. Why would anyone intentionally handicap themselves with an underpowered airplane if they can afford a more capable one? Good question. High DA and marginal performance aren't something you can master without actually flying one of those aircraft.

It sounds like you're already a glider pilot so you understand wind and thermal micrometeorology, which is a good foundation for mountain flying. Have to practice on working the wing with minimal power. Carbon Cub just makes it too easy. You have to be handicapped for real.

Very interesting perspective on the Carbon Cub making it "too easy" and not having an appreciation for the performance without the perspective of some time in a lower performance aircraft. I can certainly appreciate that.

Interesting that I made a very similar post on the CC Forum to get some info and haven't had a reply yet, lol. Thank you to all of those that have shared their opinions here.

Also, I live in Northern Virginia, FWIW.

Thank You!

Matt

It doesn't mean you have to buy the lower power machine, just train in one somehow.

Personally, if I had the money for that class of aircraft, I'd be flying a Husky.

Please report back when you've begun your flight training.

Can’t thing of a time when I had too much HP...never flown in a P51 though. I know a heli guy that caught a lot of shit because he learned in a Jet Ranger instead of the usual gutless piston job. He’s one of the best hands around SE today.

I’d say the CC would be just fine to train in. I’ve only been next to Dooley’s, it’s the EX kind, but what a sweet machine.

Some would argue that deciding on your last airplane before having flow any airplane is nonsensical.

But it's only money, and there's nothing more fun or profitable than buying and selling airplanes...

So what is your mission going to be? Local flight with only yourself, how many passengers, how much gear, how much fuel, long cross country, IFR flying, VFR only, how big is the checkbook, summer flying only, winter flying, floats, skis, big tire, small tire. I would advise you first find a good local IA before you do ANYTHING ELSE! Then go get into the right/back seat of as many aircraft as you can. Little things like how tight the aircraft seals up is important if you fly in rain/winter (CC will need a bit of work for that ) Do you have passenger/defrost heat, Can you carry you bikes with you to events, can you run MoGas vs LL. What you see aircraft do at Valdez is basically not reality for off field work. If your intent is to land hardcore off runway stuff I would learn/train in something you mind bending A Pacer is a great tailwheel trainer with dual controls and the right instructor. Did I mention that this all starts with a good IA!!
DENNY

Lostgriz wrote:
Also, I live in Northern Virginia, FWIW.

That's funny - my apologies. I guess I spend too much time in Europe.

Lostgriz,

I have two grandsons in Ruckersville Virginia, 13 and 11. I am working with local instructors here, Aurora Missouri 2H2, and there to make sure they have good initial orientation. What you believe about flying will, over the years, have a far greater impact on the quality and safety of your flying than what you fly. Read "Safe Maneuvering Flight Techniques", click signature box below. If that jives with what you already know, perhaps we can meet up when I'm back your way in the spring.

I am a medical basket case, but I can still talk. Talking is how good teachers teach. Primacy has to do with orientation,indoctrination, what you learn first. Powered flight is different, but the principles are the same as non powered flight. My Ag primary students at Ag Flight didn't believe pitching down to get through downdrafts made sense so I turned to my Spanish student who was a competitive paraglider. "Antonio, what do you do in a downdraft?" He reached over his head and simulated pulling down. "Go fast, go fast!" he said. Your orientation may already be better than you think.

Contact